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To: Salvation

Of course we all realize the Catholic church has reams and reams of information they have written and printed to convince you guys that Peter and Paul were both in Rome...

But the Apostle Paul says that he never went where another Apostle set up house...

So are you going to believe the Catholic church??? Or are you going to believe the Scripture; the Apostle Paul???

It’s as simple as that...


17 posted on 06/24/2008 9:20:38 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

As to your claim that Saint Paul would never have gone to Rome, in keeping with his conviction to preach the Gospel where no one had ever been before: 1. His initial intention to go to Rome, as stated very clearly in Romans 15, was to use it as a way-station in preparation for a missionizing trip to Spain (probably the east coast of Spain); yet, even in the context of this purpose, Paul states in Romans 1 that he still had a divine calling to preach to the Christians in Rome there, too. 2. The next time(s) Paul was in Rome was not of his own volition. He was arrested and held in Rome for a while awaiting a hearing and/or execution.


20 posted on 06/24/2008 10:04:53 AM PDT by Remole
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To: Iscool

Not everything was written in Scripture.

What was Paul doing in Tarsus between 39AD and 43AD. Is it written what Paul did during those years? He is in Jerusalem and then gone for half a decade.

“Clement of Rome:

“But, to leave the examples of antiquity, let us come to the athletes who are closest to our own time. Consider the noble examples of our own generation. Through jealousy and envy, the greatest and most righteous pillars were persecuted, and they persevered even to death. Let us set before our eyes the good apostles: Peter, who through unwarranted jealousy suffered not one or two but many toils, and having thus given testimony went to the place of glory that was his due” (Epistle to the Corinthians, 5:1 [ca. A.D. 80 or 96]).


Ignatius:

“Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you. They were apostles, and I am a convict” (Epistle to the Romans, 4:3 [A.D. 110]).


“Irenaeus

“Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church” (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 189]).

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the succession of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church [of Rome], because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3, 3, 2).

“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the letter to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21]. To him succeeded Anacletus, and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that he still heard the echoes of the preaching of the apostles and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. ... To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded . . . and now, in the twelfth place after the apostles, the lot of the episcopate [of Rome] has fallen to Eleutherius. In this order, and by the teaching of the apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us” (ibid., 3, 3, 3).

Irenaeus:

“Since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the [local] churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles” (Against Heresies, 3, 3:2 [A.D. 180]).


Irenaeus:

“Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church” (Against Heresies, 3, 1:1 [A.D. 180]).


Gaius:

“It is recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and Peter, likewise, was crucified, during the reign [of the Emperor Nero]. The account is confirmed by the names of Peter and Paul over the cemeteries there, which remain to the present time. And it is confirmed also by a stalwart man of the Church, Gaius by name, who lived in the time of Zephyrinus, Bishop of Rome. This Gaius, in a written disputation with Proclus, the leader of the sect of Cata-phrygians, says this of the places in which the remains of the aforementioned apostles were deposited: ‘I can point out the trophies of the apostles. For if you are willing to go to the Vatican or to the Ostian Way, you will find the trophies of those who founded this Church’” (Disputation with Proclus [A.D. 198] in a fragment from Eusebius, History of the Church, 2, 25:5).


21 posted on 06/24/2008 10:12:16 AM PDT by OpusatFR (Oh my! Disagreeing is now snide and a personal attack. How Obambi!)
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