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To: thefrankbaum
No. But I do believe that Faith should be grounded in reason, not feelings, and the whole of the book is based upon warm fuzzies.

There are plenty of books on the rational basis for Christianity. PDL was meant to address the emotional longings of people rather than address the intellect. I think it is an important endeavor because people today have been trained to respond primarily to emotion, and must therefore be reached at that level first and be given an emotional call for faith to drive a rational one. Just because a pastor has written a book addressing one facet of faith to a broad audience does not mean he excludes all other more weighty theological tomes.

But I do believe it is evidence that Saddleback Church is a distinct branch under the Protestant umbrella.

The "What we believe" points listed on the website does not exclude doctrine of many branches of Protestant belief. It is a very broad set of statements with which very many churches would agree.

If someone at Warren's church sought serious intellectual treatment of a given topic, he would have to go towards Calvinism, Lutheranism, Anglicanism, Catholicism, Orthodoxy...something with a deep theological reserve.

I am sure Saddleback draws from sources older than itself and it seems like they would lean Calvinist from their site. Just because a church is nondenominational does not mean they have a shallow faith. Reading their outreach materials also does not give one a good basis for judging their theology.

102 posted on 06/24/2008 9:23:01 AM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: dan1123
There are plenty of books on the rational basis for Christianity. PDL was meant to address the emotional longings of people rather than address the intellect. I think it is an important endeavor because people today have been trained to respond primarily to emotion, and must therefore be reached at that level first and be given an emotional call for faith to drive a rational one. Just because a pastor has written a book addressing one facet of faith to a broad audience does not mean he excludes all other more weighty theological tomes.

I'm not saying he excludes serious intellectual work in his book. However, ALL of his books that I've come across (maybe there are some I don't know of) are based in emotion.

The "What we believe" points listed on the website does not exclude doctrine of many branches of Protestant belief. It is a very broad set of statements with which very many churches would agree.

That is fine - but you could say the same thing about the Catholic Church's statements of belief. Many points of Catholic doctrine are the same as many points of Protestant doctrine. However, Catholicism and Protestantism are certainly distinct.

I am sure Saddleback draws from sources older than itself and it seems like they would lean Calvinist from their site. Just because a church is nondenominational does not mean they have a shallow faith. Reading their outreach materials also does not give one a good basis for judging their theology.

Two things here. First, I never said they have a shallow faith. I said they have a shallow theology. Second, as far as I see it, "nondenominational" Christians are the same as people who say they are "registered Independents." There is no such thing. If you are a Christian who belongs to a Church with a set of beliefs, you are a member of a denomination. The fact that they do not identify with any of the major branches of Protestantism is indicative of shallow theology. I don't doubt they draw some of their beliefs from other Protestant schools of thought, but it seems piecemeal and justified through "feelings."

I'm not saying that Rick Warren is a bad man, or teaches false doctrine (although, as a Catholic, I do think so), or that they are damned, or anything. I just said it seems like a "Jesus loves you" Gospel to the exclusion of everything else, and they gloss over the challenges of Christianity. Further, I think their message does not have strong intellectual underpinnings. None of this is per se bad, and I've seen many Protestant posters on this forum argue the same thing.

114 posted on 06/24/2008 1:52:35 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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