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Said mrjesse: Please just answer this one question: If the earth were turning at the rate of 180 degrees per 8.5 minutes, how far lagged would the sun's optical image be from its real position?
180 degrees off.

Now wait just a second. You said that my merry go round experiment conclusion was wrong. But what's the difference between my merry go around rotating 180 degrees in 8.5 minutes and the earth rotating 180 degrees in 8.5 minutes? I don't see any difference as regards to whether the sun's apparent position would change.

Except that you knew that if you said "Yes, rotating the merry go around would change the apparent position of the sun," you know full well that I'd go out and try it and know you were wrong :-))

Just think of the timing a sniper would need to shoot a laser pulse at someone on the earth, 180 degrees or 8.5 minutes of lead time.

The sniper would aim at the exact same point that he intended to hit - only he would have to fire 8.5 minutes early. But he'd still be pointing in the exact same direction if his laser beam traveled instantly - he just wouldn't have to fire it as soon.

So what about stars that aren't particularly orbiting the earth, but are as Ethan Clive Osgoode mentioned, stars which are several lightyears away. Are you saying that when I look up at the night sky half the stars I see are actually on the other side of the world? When I look up and see mars, is it also not where it appears? When nasa sent the mars rovers up to mars, did they have to calculate this in? Can you find anyone at nasa who plans space missions and who agrees with you? The more I hear of your idea the more crazy it sounds.

What's your best evidence that this absurd-sounding idea is true? Why can't I replicate it on the merry go around? What is different between the merry go around rotating 180 degrees per 8.5 minutes and the earth doing the same?

If you answer no others, (but please do), please answer at least this one:

So let's say it's a sunny summer and an Eskimo is standing on the north poll watching the sun through his bone-slit sunglasses. Will he notice that the sun appears to change position as he rotates his head left to right and back? How is that different then the world speeding up or slowing down?

Thanks,

-Jesse

The more I hear of your idea the more crazy it sounds.

Let's apply LeGrande's diurnal lag theory to astronomical systems held together by gravity (binary stars, globular clusters, galaxies). Gamma Persei is an eclipsing binary. The two stars are separated by about 10 AU and their "apparent" images are hard to separate with a telescope. When the primary and secondary stars are side by side, their distances to the earth are roughly the same, so the LeGrandean diurnal lag theory says that their actual diurnal positions in the sky are ahead by some 225 years (wherever that may end up to be). But when the secondary eclipses the primary, it is 10 AU closer to the earth. So now the actual position of the secondary lags behind the actual position of the primary by 83 minutes or about 21 degrees or so. Since the period of this system is about 14.6 years, LeGrandean astronomy says that the these two stars wander away from each other by some 21 degrees in the sky every 7.3 years.

It isn't any different from the world rotating left to right and back. If both the earth and the sun where stationary then the sun would be where you see it.

As I patiently tried to explain before, your merry go round experiment is fine except that you have to pulse the water and laser to see what is happening and it would help if you used the outside of the center spinning cup instead of the center.

I think all of this spinning has you dizzy. I will give you three shooting examples. First when the skeet come by sideways you have to point the gun in front of them when you shoot them because it takes time for the shot to get to the skeet. Now lets put you in the back of a speeding pickup, with a rifle, shooting off to the side. The only difference this time is that you are moving not the target you still have to lead the target if you want to hit it. The amount of lead that you need depends on the speed of the bullet, your distance to the target and the speed of the pickup.

Now lets use a laser rifle and put you on a black comet, speeding by, shooting at me as I star gaze. Lets also say that your laser rifle illuminates the comet for a brief instant when you fire the rifle. Lets also say that it takes the light 10 minutes to get to me. Now when the laser pulse hits my eyes I will see you and your comet where you were 10 minutes ago. If you keep shooting laser blasts at me each blast I see will show me you and your comet 10 minutes in the past. Your actual position at the time I see you will be way in front of where I see you.

Are you saying that when I look up at the night sky half the stars I see are actually on the other side of the world?

They might be. They have had billions of years to move around. They most certainly aren't where you see them. Also except for the stars in our galaxy most of the stars that you see when you look into the sky are galaxies.

When I look up and see mars, is it also not where it appears? When nasa sent the mars rovers up to mars, did they have to calculate this in?

It isn't a big factor but they certainly calculate it in. You don't think that they simply point the rocket at Mars and fire it do you?

Can you find anyone at nasa who plans space missions and who agrees with you? The more I hear of your idea the more crazy it sounds.

LOL They all agree with me : ) If this sounds crazy to you, then I need to withdraw my reading recommendations. May I suggest "Physics for Dummy's" I think I saw that title at a bookstore once. And no I haven't read it, but I tend to trust elementary Physics books.