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To: 1000 silverlings

***lol, so all those that aren’t called by the Father, and are not in Christ, what is their lot? What scripture do you have supporting another view? What anything do you have? If they aren’t called by the Father, are they “called by the mother?” lol***

Who is not called by the Father? Name them.


5,817 posted on 06/14/2008 4:36:11 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

You didn’t say “please”


5,819 posted on 06/14/2008 4:37:14 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: MarkBsnr; 1000 silverlings
Who is not called by the Father? Name them.

If you read your Bible, you'll find the answers.

The outward call of the Gospel goes out to every man on earth so none is without excuse. But the only men who will respond in true faith and believe in Christ are those who receive the inward call, the gift of the Holy Spirit who will bring them to repentance and saving faith in Jesus Christ.

To believe that God wills for the salvation of every man on earth denies the Scriptures and our own lying eyes. If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved. My God, the God of Scripture, the all-holy, all omnipotent, all-omnicient, all sufficient Creator of heaven and earth, gets what He wants because He already has it. It's His to do with as He pleases. Thank God, He pleases to mercifully, freely redeem His people from their sins by the sacrifice of His Son on the cross.

"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." -- John 6:65


"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." -- Matthew 20:28


"I have manefested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word...

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine...

And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word...

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." -- John 17: 6, 9, 19-20,24


"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins." -- Matthew 1:21


"He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken." -- Isaiah 53:8


"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." -- Hebrews 9:28


"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" -- Ephesians 5:25-26


"But if our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, which is the image of God, should sine unto them" -- 2 Corinthians 4:3-4


"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie" -- 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11


"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." -- Rev. 20:15

Read the following link to see why the concept of Christ paying for everyone's sins actually denies the work of Christ on the cross by saying Christ only died in theory, and not for the specific sins of His flock. Christ's death was sufficient to pay for all the sins of the world; but it was efficient only for those whom He came to redeem.

Christ did not come to redeem everyone, or else everyone would be redeemed. God's ultimate will is not thwarted by men; Christ's blood was not shed in vain for those who reject Him; the Holy Spirit is not merely an influence, but a giver of new life through the new birth in Christ...

LIMITED VS. UNLIMITED ATONEMENT

"...General atonement wrongly asserts that limited atonement speaks to the world with an ingenuine offer of salvation.  "After all, if Christ only died for the elect, then how can the Bible say, "Whoever will, let them come?"  To argue this is to confuse categories.  Christ does offer all a free pardon of their sins if only they will come, and we should speak this way to the world in his name.  But it remains true that "No one comes to me unless the Father draws them" (Jn. 6:44).  If only the elect are saved -- as the Bible teaches -- and if the Triune God knew these from before the creation of the world -- as the Bible teaches -- and if the precious blood of Jesus cleanses us from all our sins -- as the Bible teaches -- then it is only applied to those elect persons who reveal their election through their faith in Jesus, which is itself the gift of God.  This limited number of persons receives an unlimited atonement.  Everone else dies in their sins, all of them having known and sinfully rejected God (Rom. 1:18-25) and many of them having spurned a genuine offer from Christ to come to him and be saved.

Again, the great issue of our time dealing with the docrine of atonement is simply its basic definition -- vicarious, substitutionary atonement.  We must zealously preach and defend this core doctrine without relenting.  With this on the line, limited vs. general atonement is not likely to come up as much as it did in prior generations.  Nor is it so urgent, given the more fundamental doctrinal issues in the balance.  But we must not shrink from this doctrine, and we must teach it in appropriate settings with all zeal and diligence."

It all goes back to election and who is responsible for our salvation. Either men elect themselves by their good work and clever decision to believe, or God elected His family from before the foundation of the world and ordained that they were to be saved by faith in the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Those who deny the particular atonement of Jesus Christ are actually doing the devil's job by denying that Christ's atonement accomplishes exactly what God has ordained. It makes Christ's redemption of His flock impersonal, non-specific and incomplete, when in reality, God knows who are His because He named them and called them with a holy calling before they could do anything good or evil, as Paul tells us...

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11

"The purpose of God" saves the fallen sinner, by His grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5,911 posted on 06/15/2008 12:18:25 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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