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To: John Leland 1789
I'm not sure why you mention this, but it seems to me that it is consistent with our hypothesis that a (not 'the') motivating principle behind Jamnia and any possible later Jewish efforts to close the canon was to minimize the amount of stuff that those awful Christians could use.
5,666 posted on 06/14/2008 4:11:57 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
All-in-all, my interest in arguing over the contents of the Canon is extremely limited — real short. It is because I believe that God didn't leave that ultimately in the hands of man. I believe that God, even today, is pro-active in Superintending the preservation of His Words.

There are efforts in Mongolia, China and the Philippines at better translation work. My eldest son is a degreed, trained and experienced linguist, working in Asia. He tells me many stories in which the characters are often very common Christians astounding him and other of the trained ones with an uncanny ability to translate correctly and offer sound advice — common widom — or spiritual insight over the science of the thing.

Whose councils were involved in the past, and who tried to limit this and that for their own benefit, how educated or uneducated people were, is not uninteresting, but the arguments do tend to get too academic, as they make it look like a science classroom where God Himself is unwelcome.

God Himself has His “Personal interests” in the preservation of His Words from generation-to-generation. He does that even when the educated miss it and flub up. He has the power and prerogative to over-rule.

5,668 posted on 06/14/2008 4:49:11 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: Mad Dawg; John Leland 1789; fortheDeclaration; Uncle Chip; OLD REGGIE; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; ...
Jewish efforts to close the canon was to minimize the amount of stuff that those awful Christians could use.

lol. Or to minimize error.

When it comes to the Old Testament, I'll trust the Jews. From a first-up on google...

1. Jesus, in Luke 11:51 and Matthew 23:55 when he refers to the “the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah” affirms the first book of the Hebrew scripture as Genesis, and the last book as II Chronicles. This affirmation demonstrates the Hebrew “Canon” was closed by the time of Malachi in 425 B.C.

2. Jesus also referred to the 3-part division of Hebrew scripture in Luke 24:44, referring to the, “Law of Moses.. the prophets …the Psalms”. This reference confirms the current division of Hebrew canon, which excludes the books known as the Apocrypha or Deuterocanonicals.

3. Josephus (37-100 A.D), the Jewish historian also affirmed in his arguments in Contra Apion 1:7-8 the number of books in the Hebrew canon was numbered at 22, which according to Jewish numbering is the same as the 39 in the Protestant Old Testament. (See Chapter 5, Old Testament Canon). (Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty and contain the record of all time. Contra Apion 1:7-8)

4. Jewish tradition also taught in the Babylonian Talmud, the books in the Hebrew “Canon” are the identical 39 books, which are in both the Protestant and Catholic Bibles, to the exclusion of the Apocrypha. (See Talmud Babylon Baba Batra 14b)

5. Jerome (325-420 A.D.) The Biblical scholar of his day, and the translator of the Catholic Bible, the Latin Vulgate, clearly agreed with the Hebrew canon, being limited 39 books of the present Old Testament to the exclusion of the additional books of the Apocrypha.

As the link states, "Jesus and the New Testament writers never once quote the Apocrypha, although there are hundreds of quotes and references to almost the entire book of the Old Testament."

Among those who rejected the Apocrypha were Josephus, Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius and Jerome.

Like so many errors, the Apocrypha was not deemed "orthodox" until the Council of Trent. And we know why Trent was conducted -- to end the Reformation. What better way than to assemble questionable materials and put the imprinteur of God on the errors they contain?

5,703 posted on 06/14/2008 11:05:53 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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