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To: Marysecretary; Dr. Eckleburg
Once more, with the correct spelling and the ping:

He won’t let go of me, but I can, because of free will, let go of Him.

Dr. Eckleburg, Marysecretary thinks she has free will!

4,789 posted on 06/11/2008 7:49:01 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski

Let’s see if I can get this straight.

Before the frogmarching Reformed Holy Spirit leaps upon you, you have no free will so you can do anything you want.

After the frogmarching Reformed Holy Spirit hijacks your soul, you have the free will to only do the things that God wants you to do.

Is that the way you read it?


4,790 posted on 06/11/2008 7:53:11 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Petronski

Hellooooo. I don’t care what others think. I know I have free will.


4,809 posted on 06/11/2008 8:11:32 AM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Petronski; Marysecretary
Dr. Eckleburg, Marysecretary thinks she has free will!

LOL. Tattling?

Free will is a very difficult concept to divest ourselves of. I, like most of the world, held it sacrosant for most of my life. Eventually, I came to believe like Luther...

"I frankly confess that, for myself, even if it could be, I should not want 'free-will' to be given me, nor anything to be left in my own hands to enable me to endeavour after salvation; not merely because in face of so many dangers, and adversities, and assaults of devils, I could not stand my ground and hold fast my 'free-will' (for one devil is stronger than all men, and on these terms no man could be saved) ; but because, even were there no dangers, adversities, or devils, I should still be forced to labour with no guarantee of success, and to beat my fists at the air. If I lived and worked to all eternity, my conscience would never reach comfortable certainty as to how much it must do to satisfy God, Whatever work I had done, there would still be a nagging doubt' as to whether it pleased God, or whether He required something more. The experience of all who seek righteousness by works proves that; and I learned it well enough myself over a period of many years, to my own great hurt. But now that God has taken my salvation out of the control of my own will, and put it under the control of His, and promised to save me, not according to my working or running, but according to His own grace and mercy, I have the comfort¬able certainty that He is faithful and will not lie to me, and that He is also great and powerful, so that no devils or opposition can break Him or pluck me from Him. `No one,´ He says, `shall pluck them out of my hand, because my Father which gave them me is greater than all´ (John 10.28-29). Thus it is that, if not all, yet some, indeed many, are saved; whereas, by the power of ´free-will´ none at all could be saved, but every one of us would perish.

"Furthermore, I have the comfortable certainty that I please God, not by reason of the merit of my works, but by reason of His merciful favour promised to me; so that, if I work too little, or badly, He does not impute it to me, but with fatherly compassion pardons me and makes me better. This is the glorying of all the saints in their God." -- Martin Luther, "Bondage of the Will" -- (xviii) Of the comfort of knowing that salvation does not depend on free-will' (783)

I would also encourage anyone to read Van Til's great and Godly essay, WHY I BELIEVE IN GOD

Or Warfield's terrific sermon, SOME THOUGHTS ON PREDESTINATION

For our friend, Petronski, we might offer Augustine's most mature work, A TREATISE ON THE PREDESTINATION OF THE SAINTS

And for a comprehensive history as well as study, nothing beats Loraine (a guy) Boettner's THE REFORMED DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION

All these works are founded securely on the Scriptures which remind us that "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD." (Proverbs 16:33.)

No one needs to embrace the concept of Predestination in order to be saved. But I've come to believe this understanding, like all good things, is just another gift from God. Read Ephesians 1...

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved...

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints" -- Ephesians 1:4-6,17-18

It's all about election. Who chooses whom. Even if it feels like we're the ones making the choice, it's all of and by and for God's will through Jesus Christ.

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." -- John 15:16

4,837 posted on 06/11/2008 9:29:02 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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