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To: Boagenes
Luther didn't start with "sola scriptura"...

Doesn't matter. It's false whether it overture, intermezzo or coda.

...he started with attacks against abuses of the Church, starting with "indulgences". The Church wasn't having any of it, and wanted to burn him at the stake. They didn't want to be questioned. Period.

Do not pretend the Catholic Church had no beef with Luther but indulgences.

They were all heretics? They were all demonically inspired?

The ones signing on to sola scriptura or sola fide were.

Why didn't they send their best theologians to defend against his arguments? (Because they couldn't, they knew indulgences were wrong and nothing but a money making scheme, just like "buying" people out of "Purgatory").

Indulgences are not wrong. Selling them is.

. That came straight from God, and of that I have no doubt.

You don't, but you should.

356 posted on 06/01/2008 11:48:12 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski
Do not pretend the Catholic Church had no beef with Luther but indulgences.

Here is one of the Great Saints of the Catholic church...This is just a tiny bit of this guy's anti-Christian teaching...No doubt this is what the Catholic church teaches...Otherwise why would they make him a Saint???

THE SECRET OF MARY
St. Louis de Montfort

10. (4) God chose her (Mary) to be the treasurer, the administrator and the dispenser of all his graces, so that all his graces and gifts pass through her hands. Such is the power that she has received from him that, according to St Bernardine, she gives the graces of the eternal Father, the virtues of Jesus Christ, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit to whom she wills, as and when she wills, and as much as she wills.

21. Let us not imagine, then, as some misguided teachers do, that Mary being simply a creature would be a hindrance to union with the Creator. Far from it, for it is no longer Mary who lives but Jesus Christ himself, God alone, who lives in her. Her transformation into God far surpasses that experienced by St Paul and other saints, more than heaven surpasses the earth. Mary was created only for God, and it is unthinkable that she should reserve even one soul for herself. On the contrary she leads every soul to God and to union with him. Mary is the wonderful echo of God. The more a person joins himself to her, the more effectively she unites him to God. When we say "Mary", she re-echoes "God". When, like St Elizabeth, we call her blessed, she gives the honour to God. If those misguided ones who were so sadly led astray by the devil, even in their prayer-life, had known how to discover Mary, and Jesus through her, and God through Jesus, they would not have had such terrible falls. The saints tell us that when we have once found Mary, and through Mary Jesus, and through Jesus God the Father, then we have discovered every good. When we say "every good", we except nothing. "Every good" includes every grace, continuous friendship with God, every protection against the enemies of God, possession of truth to counter every falsehood, endless benefits and unfailing headway against the hazards we meet on the way to salvation, and finally every consolation and joy amid the bitter afflictions of life.

23. The difficulty, then, is how to arrive at the true knowledge of the most holy Virgin and so find grace in abundance through her. God, as the absolute Master, can give directly what he ordinarily dispenses only through Mary, and it would be rash to deny that he sometimes does so. However, St Thomas assures us that, following the order established by his divine Wisdom, God ordinarily imparts his graces to men through Mary. Therefore, if we wish to go to him, seeking union with him, we must use the same means which he used in coming down from heaven to assume our human nature and to impart his graces to us. That means was a complete dependence on Mary his Mother, which is true devotion to her.

47. 2. We must always act in Mary, that is to say, we must gradually acquire the habit of recollecting ourselves interiorly and so form within us an idea or a spiritual image of Mary. She must become, as it were, an Oratory for the soul where we offer up our prayers to God without fear of being ignored. She will be as a Tower of David for us where we can seek safety from all our enemies. She will be a burning lamp lighting up our inmost soul and inflaming us with love for God. She will be a sacred place of repose where we can contemplate God in her company.

Finally Mary will be the only means we will use in going to God, and she will become our intercessor for everything we need. When we pray we will pray in Mary. When we receive Jesus in Holy Communion we will place him in Mary for him to take his delight in her. If we do anything at all, it will be in Mary, and in this way Mary will help us to forget self everywhere and in all things.

48. 3. We must never go to our Lord except through Mary, using her intercession and good standing with him. We must never be without her when praying to Jesus.

This guy quotes church fathers and other Saints of the Catholic church...

This is not the Christian church of the Holy Scriptures...People should get as far away as they possibly can from this religion...

381 posted on 06/01/2008 1:08:02 PM PDT by Iscool
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