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To: MarkBsnr
Re: 1 Timothy 2:4 let's see what Calvin has to say...

"Hence we see the childish folly of those who represent this passage to be opposed to predestination. "If God," say they, "wishes all men indiscriminately to be saved, it is false that some are predestined by his eternal purpose to salvation, and others to perdition." They might have had some ground for saying this, if Paul were speaking here about individual men; although even then we should not have wanted the means of replying to their argument; for, although the will of God ought not to be judged from his secret decrees, when he reveals them to us by outward signs, yet it does not therefore follow that he has not determined with himself what he intends to do as to every individual man.

But I say nothing on that subject, because it has nothing to do with this passage; for the Apostle simply means, that there is no people and no rank in the world that is excluded from salvation; because God wishes that the gospel should be proclaimed to all without exception. Now the preaching of the gospel gives life; and hence he justly concludes that God invites all equally to partake salvation. But the present discourse relates to classes of men, and not to individual persons; for his sole object is, to include in this number princes and foreign nations. That God wishes the doctrine of salvation to be enjoyed by them as well as others, is evident from the passages already quoted, and from other passages of a similar nature. Not without good reason was it said, "Now, kings, understand," and again, in the same Psalm, "I will give thee the Gentiles for an inheritance, and the ends of the earth for a possession." (Psalm 2:8-10.)

In a word, Paul intended to shew that it is our duty to consider, not what kind of persons the princes at that time were, but what God wished them to be. Now the duty arising out of that love which we owe to our neighbor is, to be solicitous and to do our endeavor for the salvation of all whom God includes in his calling, and to testify this by godly prayers.

Since Scripture cannot contradict Scripture, Paul is here telling us that God's salvation is obvious for all men to behold, but only those who have been regenerated by the gift of the Holy Spirit will respond in faith.

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." -- Romans 9:13

As God wills.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" -- Titus 3:5-6

Does God regenerate all men? Is God's saving grace to believe shed on all men?

No. If that were true, there would be two saved thieves at Calvary instead of only one.

10,785 posted on 07/01/2008 1:10:07 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
If that were true, there would be two saved thieves at Calvary instead of only one.

They both had free will to choose to believe in Christ. One did not.

10,788 posted on 07/01/2008 1:14:51 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
...let's see what Calvin has to say...

More sola Cauvin already?

10,789 posted on 07/01/2008 1:16:08 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

***”If God,” say they, “wishes all men indiscriminately to be saved, it is false that some are predestined by his eternal purpose to salvation, and others to perdition...” ***

Now that is quick footwork. Scripture says ‘all men’ and not ‘all princes and kings’. Jesus will draw all men to Him when He ascends.

But you say, not all men will be saved. And you are correct. Therefore the problem is in the interpretation. A predestined future for all men is therefore incorrect because it only is supported by some of the verses in Scripture and strongly refuted by others.

***Does God regenerate all men?***

No. Nobody said He did.

***Is God’s saving grace to believe shed on all men? ***

Yes. His grace extends to all men.

***If that were true, there would be two saved thieves at Calvary instead of only one.***

Men are not robot slaves. Only one thief repented.


10,805 posted on 07/01/2008 1:40:36 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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