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To: annalex; Alex Murphy; xzins; netmilsmom; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg

“In Catholic theology, a Christian is one who has been baptised”

See that’s where the Roman Catholic theology differs from what Paul said and practiced. In 1 Cor. 1:14-18, “I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”

Odd isn’t it that if baptism was necessary for salvation that Jesus would fail to commission Paul, an Apostle, to baptize.


129 posted on 05/20/2008 5:49:01 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Alex Murphy; xzins; netmilsmom; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg
1 Cor. 1:14-18

Neither a necessity of baptism or its putative optionality follows from the fact that St. Paul did not baptise everyone he preached to. The necessity of baptism is clear from John 3 and Acts 2.

136 posted on 05/20/2008 7:40:08 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: blue-duncan; annalex; Alex Murphy; xzins; netmilsmom; Gamecock

Blue-duncan

I may have stated this before, but it seems to many (including me) that Protestants start with St. Paul and interpret Christ and the Gospels from that context. This, from the Catholic perspective, is incorrect. The Catechism of the Catholic Church correctly points out how the Sacred Scriptures should be interpreted and how the Bible was interpreted throughout Christian History. I have provided the link which describes Catholic principles for reading the Scripture and I have quoted in my post some of the important points.

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt2.htm

CCC 124 “The Word of God, which is the power of God for salvation to everyone who has faith, is set forth and displays its power in a most wonderful way in the writings of the New Testament” which hand on the ultimate truth of God’s Revelation. Their central object is Jesus Christ, God’s incarnate Son: his acts, teachings, Passion and glorification, and his Church’s beginnings under the Spirit’s guidance.

Note above, the central object of the Scriptures is the person of Christ and thus everything in the OT points to Christ and all the NT epistles should be interpreted with Christ as the reference point. The Catechism continues,

CCC 125 The Gospels are the heart of all the Scriptures “because they are our principal source for the life and teaching of the Incarnate Word, our Savior”.
CCC 126 We can distinguish three stages in the formation of the Gospels:

1. The life and teaching of Jesus. The Church holds firmly that the four Gospels, “whose historicity she unhesitatingly affirms, faithfully hand on what Jesus, the Son of God, while he lived among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation, until the day when he was taken up.”

2. The oral tradition. “For, after the ascension of the Lord, the apostles handed on to their hearers what he had said and done, but with that fuller understanding which they, instructed by the glorious events of Christ and enlightened by the Spirit of truth, now enjoyed.”

3. The written Gospels. “The sacred authors, in writing the four Gospels, selected certain of the many elements which had been handed on, either orally or already in written form; others they synthesized or explained with an eye to the situation of the churches, the while sustaining the form of preaching, but always in such a fashion that they have told us the honest truth about Jesus.”

Paragraph 129 describes the principle of Typology, which is what the Church Fathers (e.g., St. Augustine) used when interpreting Sacred Scripture. The Catechism states:
CCC 129 Christians therefore read the Old Testament in the light of Christ crucified and risen. Such typological reading discloses the inexhaustible content of the Old Testament; but it must not make us forget that the Old Testament retains its own intrinsic value as Revelation reaffirmed by our Lord himself. Besides, the New Testament has to be read in the light of the Old. Early Christian catechesis made constant use of the Old Testament. As an old saying put it, the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.

The CCC reiterates the point made earlier about “Christ being the reference point for the entire Sacred Scripture” as the Catechism states

CCC 134 All sacred Scripture is but one book, and this one book is Christ, “because all divine Scripture speaks of Christ, and all divine Scripture is fulfilled in Christ” (Hugh of St. Victor, De arca Noe 2, 8: PL 176, 642: cf. ibid. 2, 9: PL 176, 642-643).

CCC 139 The four Gospels occupies a central place because Christ Jesus is their center.

So, the Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition must be interpreted in light of the person of Christ, who by his incarnation, revealed God. Christ, who is the “Son of God”, certainly commanded the Apostles to Baptize when he stated “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you” (c.f. Mt 28:19-20).

So while St. Paul stated he “thanked God that I Baptized none of you...” (c.f. 1 Cor 1:14-18), I don’t think that means he was against Baptism, as he would have been contradicting Christ’s command in Mt 28:19-20. In fact, in other places in Scripture, St. Paul clearly teaches a orthodox Baptismal theology as evidenced in Romans 6:3-4; Col 2: 11-12; Titus 3:5; Gal 3:27; Eph 4:5.

So while St. Paul did not Baptize the Christians at the Church at Collossae (someone else obviously did), there is no way one can draw from the Biblical text that St. Paul was “anti-Baptisim” and since CHrist commanded the Apostles to “go and baptize” (c.f. Mt 28-19-20), I would think, given the other text where St. Paul did in fact teach a strong baptismal theology, that he 1) was authorized to go and Baptize and 2) had a view of Baptism consistent with the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox CHurch view, and not your negative view about Baptism.

Cheers


152 posted on 05/20/2008 9:48:14 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: blue-duncan

Excellent!


170 posted on 05/20/2008 10:46:18 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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