Replies

Web sites are not free, bandwidth costs money, ask Jim about that...

Not to the tune of 2+ million / year.

I am quite sure that the church employs many web developers to keep it's web site running too, so? the prohibition was on those who were to teach the Gospel, but of course with your degrees and such, you knew that, right?

The only way you can prove that is to show that their only expendature is on the internet. And that is a big difference from hiring professionals (undefined). Again, you should be embarrassed, shameless bending of the truth is or should be beneath a man of God.

Yep, you know all about shameless bending of truth

For free...

Right……so you say

How much does Jim spend annually to run FR? I'll bet you'd be surprised. BTW, he's a non profit organization, by your logic, he's a front for some church...

No need to insult Jim in that fashion. It is less than $20 million /yr. BTW, check the FR main – donations are not tax deductable – hence FR is for profit. Free Republic operates on an approximate $260,000 annual budget.

they are now part of BYU, so they can take advantage of all the free labor undergrads will give them to get published, sounds smart to me, so?

Free (slave) labor, their own NewAvent.

Apparently one mans obfuscation is another man's clarification, I will admit that you seem to know far more about obfuscation than I do...

It they clarify, then the air is clear in LA

It's a collage, most colleges are multi million dollar operations, some times multi million just describes the football team. they often don't pay students if they don't have to, that's the point of having undergraduates, people who teach the classes for the professors, write their papers, do their research, for next to nothing if not nothing, and the professors are out looking for grants to justify more free labor to make them more money, college is a scam, trust me on this.

Not talking football teams, talking paid professionals to post their bile in the pay of lds incorporated.

I thought you had said earlier that you were a professional theologian, and this was part of your work, pardon me if I got that wrong, are you or are you not a professional religionist?

You are the one who has made that accusation on me. What I did say in the past is if that makes you feel better to think that, it was fine by me.

An article from the mormon church-owned newspaper explains the frenzy exhibited by the mormons on FR: Deseret News

Adoption of FLDS name is akin to identity theft

Deseret News

Published: Sunday, May 11, 2008 12:46 a.m. MDT

By Joe Cannon

In the days following the raid on the Texas polygamous compound, I took a call from a St. Louis radio host requesting one of our reporters to come on his show to "talk about the situation in Utah." Early in this cordial conversation, I informed him that this newspaper is owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that I am a member of this church.

After a few minutes, it became clear that he thought I was somehow affiliated with the FLDS group. I felt like an anthropology specimen. The questions were friendly and good natured, but imbedded in them was the notion that there was really no difference between the LDS Church and the FLDS group, they were simply all Mormons to him.

Given the enormous national and international attention focused on the Texas raid, it has been abundantly clear that while many people understand the difference between the LDS Church and this polygamous group, unfortunately there is still substantial confusion between the two.

Much of this confusion comes from misapplying the name Mormon, as in "fundamentalist Mormon" or "Mormon polygamist." The LDS Church has gone to great lengths to protect the name Mormon (note video of Elder Quentin L. Cook on YouTube, www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUtjsdtDOkQ). However, much misidentification simply results from the confusion between the terms LDS and FLDS.

Not only are many of the FLDS teachings in conflict with, and repugnant to, the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but, in fact, a person who believes in or practices the teachings of the fundamentalists would be excommunicated from the LDS Church.

While not strictly speaking identity theft, the adoption of FLDS by this group at best is confusing and at worst undermines the credibility of the Latter-day Saints and tarnishes the LDS "brand." Sometimes damage to a brand or a trademark has been called attempted identity theft at the corporate level.

I am not making a narrow legal argument about trademark law issues here. Rather, my discussion is more broadly about brand identification and injury to a brand name.

While the terms LDS and Mormon are not brands in the commercial sense, these terms reflect the identity, reputation and teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The LDS Church has the right and expectation that the use of these terms will convey certain impressions to those who become aware of them. This is known in the business world as brand equity and in the words of NetMBA.com it "is an intangible asset that depends on associations made by the consumer."

An illustration from the business world might give us some insight. Suppose several engineers at General Electric invented an electric motor and decided that their product was superior to other similar products produced by the company. This group of engineers decides then to break away from General Electric and form a new company called Fundamental General Electric or FGE for short. How would General Electric react to this? Would it feel that its brand equity was being diminished or stolen? Of course they would. And they would be right.

Similarly, this group which claims to be a break-off of the LDS Church is, as noted, utterly different in its beliefs and practices. In an April 19 story in our paper, Brian Hales, a Layton physician and historian, notes, for example, that "brain-washing is a legitimate description of what occurs within the FLDS Church 'because they don't allow any outside information inside and vice versa.' On the other hand, the Salt Lake-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — which many continue to mistakenly associate with the polygamous sect — sends missionaries around the globe preaching a gospel message centered in Jesus Christ, Hales said. The opposite is true of the FLDS Church, which is insular, secretive and has no desire to share a message of salvation with others ... That's their world, and it's the direct opposite of what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young promoted."

The group that became known as the FLDS Church didn't begin until 1929. More significantly this group did not even adopt the name FLDS until nearly a century after the LDS Church abandoned polygamy.

Whatever their motivation, the consequence of this group's adoption of the name FLDS has damaged the LDS Church's identity, brand name and reputation.

I Said: Web sites are not free, bandwidth costs money, ask Jim about that...

u Said: Not to the tune of 2+ million / year.

And that has to do with the original assertion of yours the Fair has always been supported by the church? (nothing) Who knows and who cares what they spent their money on as a private non profit, as a part of BYU, it's published in the budget somewhere...

I Said: I am quite sure that the church employs many web developers to keep it's web site running too, so? the prohibition was on those who were to teach the Gospel, but of course with your degrees and such, you knew that, right?

U Said: The only way you can prove that is to show that their only expendature is on the internet. And that is a big difference from hiring professionals (undefined).

Really? You assert that they were supported by the Church, Prove it, you can't, cool...

I don't have to prove anything, you are the one saying they were a part of the church from the beginning...

I Said: Again, you should be embarrassed, shameless bending of the truth is or should be beneath a man of God.

U Said: Yep, you know all about shameless bending of truth

I should, I've been debating you long enough to recognize it by now.

I Said: For free...

I Said: Right……so you say

Yes, I do say that I am not paid by the church, do you have any proof other than you think I am a liar that says otherwise? (crickets...)

I Said: How much does Jim spend annually to run FR? I'll bet you'd be surprised. BTW, he's a non profit organization, by your logic, he's a front for some church...

I Said: No need to insult Jim in that fashion.

I did not insult Jim, he has done a wonderful work here which you twist far from it's political purpose in attacking a religion with his site. IMHO you are a poor house guest.

U Said: It is less than $20 million /yr. BTW, check the FR main – donations are not tax deductable – hence FR is for profit. Free Republic operates on an approximate $260,000 annual budget.

When I started posting here in 2003, it was a not for profit, in 2005 the dinosaur media managed to get that stripped in an attempt to force postings here to be excerpts not full articles. FR started as a Not for Profit, just like FAIR, and like FAIR is not now. The analogy is apt, your claim that Fair having a specific political purpose MUST have a connection to the church from the beginning is bereft of support, you have no proof, and proof to the contrary is blithely denied by you. This is similar to your attacks on the church where you summarily ignore all evidence to the contrary of your unsubstantiated assertions about us.

I Said: they are now part of BYU, so they can take advantage of all the free labor undergrads will give them to get published, sounds smart to me, so?

U Said: Free (slave) labor, their own NewAvent.

LOL! Show me a religious college that does not put undergrads to work for them.

Slave labor? College is more like voluntary indentured servitude, in the hopes that once your paid apprenticeship is over you can earn more than you would have been able to earn otherwise. (Ergo, it's a racket)

I Said: Apparently one mans obfuscation is another man's clarification, I will admit that you seem to know far more about obfuscation than I do...

U Said: It they clarify, then the air is clear in LA

I have seen clear air in LA... I brought it there in a bottle from Utah. LOL!

I Said: It's a collage, most colleges are multi million dollar operations, some times multi million just describes the football team. they often don't pay students if they don't have to, that's the point of having undergraduates, people who teach the classes for the professors, write their papers, do their research, for next to nothing if not nothing, and the professors are out looking for grants to justify more free labor to make them more money, college is a scam, trust me on this.

U Said: Not talking football teams, talking paid professionals to post their bile in the pay of lds incorporated.

You admit my point, but only for football? LOL! College departments are multi million dollar enterprises, and BYU like any other college that is supported by a church has a large religion department, how much does the Catholic church spend on their web sites (since you brought up new advent)?

You assert that FAIR was supported by the church from the beginning, you have yet to substantiate that, claim, you refuse to recant that claim, the evidence that disproves that claim has been presented, you are looking more and more like a hack, stop it.

I Said: I thought you had said earlier that you were a professional theologian, and this was part of your work, pardon me if I got that wrong, are you or are you not a professional religionist?

U Said: You are the one who has made that accusation on me.

So, I ask a questions and you refuse to answer... LOL!

U Said: What I did say in the past is if that makes you feel better to think that, it was fine by me.

LOL! Now you are denying (in an oh so deniable way denying) that you ever said that, Tennessee Nana, didn't you say that increased your esteem for Godzilla? What's your opinion now that he refuses to admit what he said earlier? Who is obfuscating here, the guy who is refusing to admit if he is paid or not, or the guy asking for clarification? what say you Nana?