Posted on 05/06/2008 10:18:16 AM PDT by Utah Girl
The historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints took issue Monday with a New York Times opinion piece comparing FLDS polygamists in Texas to 19th century Mormons.
In a statement released Monday, church historian Elder Marlin K. Jensen took exception to author Timothy Egan's portrayal in the Times.
"Mr. Egan's cavalier comparison of FLDS polygamy practices with those of 19th century Latter-day Saints is historically unsupported and simply wrong," wrote Elder Jensen, a member of the church's Quorums of Seventy. "By implication, he also unfairly impugns the integrity of all Latter-day Saint marriages and families, the very institutions they hold most dear."
In a piece posted on the Times Web site April 23, Egan called the polygamists in west Texas "1870s Stepford wives" and "men with their low monotones and pious, seeming disregard for the law on child sex." And Egan drew parallels between present-day FLDS members and 1800s Mormons.
In his response, Elder Jensen wrote, "The conditions surrounding the practice of polygamy in Texas today bear little resemblance to the plural marriage practiced by Mormons more than a century ago," he said. "As thoughtful historians know, a serious study of history does not impose contemporary understandings and sensibilities onto an interpretation of earlier time periods."
Elder Jensen also said Egan's tacit claim that 19th century Mormon women were subservient and backward was false. Women played an integral part in LDS culture, held jobs and were politically active, Elder Jensen said.
"For a long time ... the church was at odds with basic American ideals, and not just because old guys sanctioned marital sex with dozens of teenage girls," Egan wrote. "What you see in Texas — in small part — is a look back at some of the behavior of Mormonism's founding fathers."
"Smith was fortunate enough to find a religious cover for his desire," Egan continued. "His polygamy 'revelation' was put into The Doctrine and Covenants, one of three sacred texts of Mormonism."
In his response, Elder Jensen wrote that men and women often married at a younger age than might be considered acceptable today. A girl marrying at 15 was not uncommon and the common-law marriage age for women was 12, he said. Women were not forced into marriages and divorces were "readily granted," Elder Jensen wrote.
Attempts Monday night to contact Egan for comment were unsuccessful.
Online:
• Column by New York Times Op-Extra columnist Timothy Egan (April 23)
• Response by Elder Marlin K. Jensen, Church Historian, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (May 5)
Good thing God doesn't deem me unworthy.............
Do also hate anti-Christian posts?
Was this just normal behavior for that time period?
("Oh, how I hate [Mormon] history")
(I'd say the 2 are equivalent, eh, Osage?)
You've got this absolutley right. In fact the church policy that attempts to explain this is "FOLLOW THE LIVING PROPHET". The argument is apparently God didn't foresee technicalities in his commandments to previous prophets, but don't worry, we have a "living prophet" who will sort things out. Also God's original plan which he revealed earlier has been thwarted by faithless members of the church, UNTIL EVEN THE WHOLE CHURCH IS UNDER CONDEMNATION !! (I have actually heard this preached from levels all the way to the top, from the pulpit)
Don't blame God and don't blame the prophet either when they are wrong, IT's YOUR FAULT, so you OWE US !!
Also, if things are going well, it is OUR fault, so YOU OWE us.
....And if things are good for us, but bad for you, God is punishing you so YOU OWE US !!
Psychologists call this a "double bind", or a cult of guilt.....Find a factual quote from Brigham Young or Joseph Smith, even by accident and they pull your temple recommend for associating with apostate groups. They will even do that to you if you watch South Park. (not kidding)
Good thing God doesn't deem me unworthy.. [OO]
Ya know, I don't think we even see Mormons use the word "temple" aside from the Mormon one, do we? Paul twice wrote the Corinthians about being a bodily "temple of the Holy Spirit." If this bodily habitation was fully predicated upon the person being 100% "worthy," it'd never happen.
I don’t think polygamy has ever been “normal”, certainly not in this country.
The topic was the age of marriage, which I also can’t say what is “norm”, which is why I said I didn’t know what the norm was, just that it wasn’t non-existant for younger marriages.
The article on marriage, which was published in the early editions of the Doctrine and Covenants was frequently used by the early Mormon Church to counteract the report that polygamy was being practiced. On Sept. 1, 1842, this statement appeared in the Times and Seasons (vol. 3, p. 909): "Inasmuch as the public mind has been unjustly abused... we make an extract on the subject of marriage, showing the rule of the church on this important matter. The extract is from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and is the only rule allowed in the church.
" '...Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy; we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife, and one woman, but one husband,... ' " In vol. 4, p. 143, of the Times and Seasons, we find the following: "We are charged with advocating a plurality of wives, and common property. Now this is as false as the many other ridiculous charges which are brought against us. No sect have [sic] a greater reverence for the laws of matrimony, or the rights of private property, and we do what others do not, practice what we preach." In the Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, vol. 3, p. 74, the following denial appeared: "But, for the information of those who may be assailed by those foolish tales about two wives, we would say that no such principle ever existed among the Latter-Day Saints, and never will;... the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants; and also all our periodicals are very strict on that subject, indeed far more so than the bible."
Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter. . . . all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same. . . . and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned . . . (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1-4).
One of the first women listed as a plural wife of Joseph Smith is Fanny Alger, a teenager who lived in the Smith home in the mid-1830's. Todd Compton, an LDS historian, commented that her marriage to him in Kirtland, Ohio, established a pattern that was repeated in Nauvoo, Illinois: Smith secretly marries a teenage servant or family friend living in his home, and his first wife Emma forces the young woman from the premises when she discovers the relationship (In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith, by Todd Compton, p. 25). Oliver Cowdery, one of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon, became aware of the relationship between Joseph and Fanny but considered it a case of adultery. In 1838 he wrote to his brother, Warren, about the episode: When he [Joseph Smith] was there we had some conversation in which in every instance I did not fail to affirm that what I had said was strictly true. A dirty, nasty, filthy affair of his and Fanny Alger's was talked over in which I strictly declared that I had never deviated from the truth in the matter, and as I supposed was admitted by himself (Letter written by Oliver Cowdery and recorded by his brother Warren Cowdery; see photograph in The Mormon Kingdom, vol. 1, p. 27).
Oliver Cowdery, one of the "Three Witnesses" was excommunicated from the church for revealing Smith's affair. Smith set a pattern of rule in the LDS church that is still practiced today, when the "truth" doesn't "smell good".
With all due respect, lady, you have not attended Elders quorum or High Preist quorum meetings, and THEY DO keep track of weekly attendance, and they send missionaries and home teachers out after them when the miss church. They even conduct monthly “Persoanl Priesthood Interviews” with these groups where they inquire about tithing and wether the wife is working out of the home against the “prophet’s commandments”. you wouldn’t know about this, it is kept from the women.
Change a name or two and I’d think most people would think this was talking about the FLDS. But, then, Joseph Smith is the progenitor of the FLDS.
Baloney.
They don't want to face the facts, IMO.
Change is hard...and it can hurt emotionally, financially, personally, etc..
Well, then...the problem for Mormons is that they cite alleged cultural norms (19th century mean age for marriage..albeit, they do not quote it accurately) to justify their prophets' marriages to young teenage girls.
BUT...they can't have it both ways! If societal norms set their marital practice, then polygamy would not have been a doctrine and practice of the prophets and the LDS church in the 19th century.
The topic was the age of marriage, which I also can’t say what is “norm”, which is why I said I didn’t know what the norm was,...
It has already been shown that the historical mean age of women at marriage was twenty, or greater, at the time. That was the norm...not fourteen to sixteen.
Joseph Smith lied about his marriages and coerced, at least 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball, his brides into polygamous marriage...Sounds just like the FLDS, today,which is the point of the overall issue.
“Mean” age just means that there were an equal number women younger than 20 and older than 20 being married. It doesn’t mean it’s the “norm.”
No...
Mr. Mind-Reader at it again...tell me, non-mormon CW, do you get these "revelations" of what other FReepers are thinking as a voice from the Holy Spirit, accompanied by a "burning in the bosom"?
Mr. Mind-Reader at it again...tell me, non-mormon CW, do you get these "revelations" of what other FReepers are thinking as a voice from the Holy Spirit, accompanied by a "burning in the bosom"?
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