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To: conservativegramma
It may be helpful to point out that in most European Monarchies, if there was a real live King, then "queen" was a "courtesy title". You may have noted that the husband of the Sovereign of the UK is not KING Philip, but Prince Philip, because to have a king (in the patriarchal system we're talking about) would suggest that Queen Elizabeth was not queen "in her own right"

The "Queen Mother" was never a queen "in her own right" but given the courtesy title because she was married to King George.

To the extent that we Papists give Mary the title of "Queen" of this or that, it is as much as a bald statement that she does NOT "naturally" or "by right" have that title but by the courtesy of Heaven, because she is mother of Christ the King. When these terms were introduced, they were introduced in a culture that understood them.

As to the rest, Mary is understood to enjoy now what all the blessed will enjoy one day. She is not different IN KIND from any redeemed person (aka "saint"). We do think she enjoys these blessings to a greater degree that any other saint will, but that does not make her a goddess, any more than my being the heaviest person in my family makes me a boulder. And we think what God promises to the elect is very wonderful indeed.

And if only God is holy, is to be taken in an all-inclusive way, then we'd better tell Paul and others to stop calling the Christians the holy ones (usually translated "saints", but the Greek is the same in any case.)

Finally, any remarkable characteristics which we may say Mary has, we understand as being graces, not her "own" powers or holiness or whatever.

I'm not trying to persuade you to agree with this. I'm just trying to help you aim your attacks more precisely. Currently you haven't said anything that shows that you understand our teaching, so your disagreements have no effect.

750 posted on 05/05/2008 5:48:57 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg; conservativegramma
"When these terms were introduced, they were introduced in a culture that understood them."

Yes, they were introduced to a deeply pagan world that worshipped Ishtar/Semiramis, the Queen of Heaven, just as Isaiah said. They also made "hot cross buns" in honor of Tammuz.

799 posted on 05/05/2008 7:19:32 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Jimmy Carter is the skidmark in the panties of American History)
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