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To: Paved Paradise

Do you have any source documents showing what Pope supposedly spent money donated via indulgences on treasures? Most of the abuses in the “selling” of indulgences were done by rogue confessors, and the legitimate indulgences weren’t sold by the Church, but a monetary donation was required as part of the penance - that money was used to build Churches, Hosptials, etc. I can go dig up the info if you’d like!


718 posted on 05/05/2008 5:08:43 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: thefrankbaum

Yes, in fact I do. I have in my possession a series of books that were published in 1866, entitled “The Great Reformation” by W. Carlos Martyn, who also happened to be the author of another work, entitled, “The Life and Times of John Milton.” The book I reference is Volume I: The Life and Times of Martin Luther.

Chapter X goes into great detail about Pope Leo X and his purchases of many antiquities with money from the indulgences and his desire to increase his treasure trove in part was the reason he stepped up the sale of indulgences big time. There was a lot of debate going on at that time amongst the various bishops because indulgences was not something new, it just wasn’t practiced that often or advertised quite so zealously.

One of the specifics mentioned is Leo’s acquisition of a manuscript of the 33rd book of Livy. Leo paid 147 gold ducats for this work.

You are correct that money from indulgences went to erect churches as well, but the ends do not justify the means and you are absolutely incorrect about it only being rogue bishops or other church hierarchy. Oh, if that were only true. There are numerous historical books that document this, including D’Aubigne’s History of the Reformation, Stebbings History of the Reformation, et al.

You can dig up anything you like and I’ll be happy to read it, but I can acknowledge the wrongs the church did and accept it for what it is. I don’t really have a “dog in this race” because I know that man is sinful and fallible and it has no reflection upon Christ. I know the Church has done horrible things and I know the things attributed to Martin Luther (his anti-semitism, for instance) and that does not diminish him or the Church in my eyes. It’s just that I can see her (the Church) even with all of her flaws and still love her.

There were all kinds of letters going back and forth during the period right before and during the Reformation about these “satisfactions” or “indulgences” so there is a lot of documentation.

Sometimes, it’s best to just accept the truth and move on. Just like the Catholic Church and her horrible treatment of Jews over the years. The Church finally made a formal apology. If the Pope can admit his wrong, surely you can.


838 posted on 05/05/2008 9:22:51 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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