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To: blue-duncan
"I must have missed this. Where do you find this in the scriptures?"

There's a LOT of Scripture that you Protestants "missed".

Acts 13:3 says, "And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on (Barnabas and Paul), they sent them away."

"You forgot he was also with James, the Lord’s brother. I think he would have learned more from him than Peter."

The relevant verse mentions James not at all.

A Galatians 1:18 "Then after three years I went to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days."

""List just one church that Peter founded. It wasn’t the Jerusalem church since that was established by the Apostles and they selected James, brother of John, as the first leader and then James, the Lord’s brother. It certainly was not Rome since there is no mention of him in Paul’s letter."

Geez--do you actually believe that all the Churches the apostles founded got mentioned in the New Testament?? How stupid. And as the Peter not being in Rome because Paul doesn't mention him proves nothing. There is plenty of hard historical evidence that proves beyond question that Peter was indeed in Rome, and died there. Of course, since that's "not in the Bible", you'll blow it off (but that's one of the reasons that "sola scriptura" is asinine).

446 posted on 05/05/2008 5:41:31 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog
“There's a LOT of Scripture that you Protestants “missed”.”

Actually we missed none of the scriptures. If you will notice, the Holy Spirit had already chosen Paul to be a missionary before he met with any of the Apostles.

Acts 9:15, “But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel”

Acts 9:17, “And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.”

In fact, Paul didn't need the Apostles to authenticate his ministry and went into Arabia alone to study then went to Damascus to preach before going up to Jerusalem. Even then, the Apostles wanted nothing to do with him until Barnabas intervened.

Galatians 1:18 “Then after three years I went to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days” (you forgot vs 19, “But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother”).

Acts 9:26-28, “And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.”

Paul then went back to Antioch to teach; brought gifts to the Jerusalem church without any mention of meeting with the Apostles; returned to his home town, Tarsus, to preach; and then back to Antioch where he taught until the Holy Spirit called and said it was time to fulfill his purpose.

Acts 13: 1-4, “Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.”

Paul and Barnabas started churches in Cyprus, Pamphylia, Cilicia and Galatia during this missionary journey without the permission of the Apostles, just the Holy Spirit's moving in them and the teachers and prophets they ministered with at the Antioch church.

When Paul went back to the Jerusalem church and brought the Gentile, Titus, with him, he refused to accede to their demands that Titus be circumcised. Paul's position was that his ministry was as authentic as the ministry of the other Apostles since he, himself, was “an Apostle born out of due time” and they could add nothing to him that the Holy Spirit had no already given him.

Gal. 2:6-8, “But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)”

The “right hand of fellowship” was only a recognition of their partnership in their witnessing of the gospel; it conferred nothing on Paul or Barnabas that the Holy Spirit had not already given them.

Gal. 2:9, “And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision”

Three times, Paul has had hands laid” on him; Ananias, prophets and teachers at Antioch; and James, Cephas, and John. The first two were not Apostles yet they were recognition of the Holy Spirit's calling on Paul's life and Paul ministered after that recognition. The “right hand of fellowship” was no different than the two previous recognitions.

As far as Peter founding any churches there is no evidence he did. He disappears after his hypocrisy is exposed to the Jerusalem church in Acts 15 and when Paul mentions that all have forsaken him in his last letter to Timothy, just before his death, if Peter was in Rome at the time, his abandoning Paul in his time of need, is symptomatic of what he did in Jesus’ time of need.

452 posted on 05/05/2008 6:42:02 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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