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To: roamer_1
That is sin, and he knows it to be so, as when he is caught at it he exhibits guilt.

If he knows it to be so (truly knows it and not just knows that Mom and Dad will be mad) then he is not the child we are talking about.

It is for this reason that I used the word (I try t carefully pick words) "infant."

If infants have no capacity for knowing and choosing and understanding the remifications, then they do not sin.

And the "all have sinned" Bible verse must allow exceptions and can not be used as a bludgedon to deny Mary her role.

That was the point.

1,178 posted on 05/06/2008 4:46:15 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
It is for this reason that I used the word (I try t carefully pick words) "infant."

Ah, well I thought you had expanded your definition, as your example was a toddler.

If infants have no capacity for knowing and choosing and understanding the remifications, then they do not sin.

But we have no means to know what passes through the 'mind' of an infant. We don't know if the soul is full formed and simply unable to fully control the synaptic switches to get it's point across, or if the soul is in development along with the body. For all we know there is a potential for sin within the womb itself. It cannot be proven in any event.

And the "all have sinned" Bible verse must allow exceptions and can not be used as a bludgedon to deny Mary her role.

Even if I grant that all infants are innocent, that then leaves no special role for Mary in that case. There is truly *nothing* in the Scriptures that suggests an immaculate birth for Mary, nor that she led a perfect and sinless life (in fact, Mary herself suggests the opposite)- For if that were to be so, there would be no need for Christ, as His Mother would have set the precedent before Him.

1,216 posted on 05/06/2008 5:13:01 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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