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To: SoothingDave
You are demonstrating that you have no understanding of the sin nature.

Here's an excellent definition: "". . . the structure of sin in the human personality is far more complicated than the isolated acts and thoughts of deliberate disobedience commonly designated in the world. In its biblical definition, sin cannot be limited to isolated instances or patterns of wrongdoing; it is something much more akin to the psychological term complex: an organic network of compulsive attitudes, beliefs, and behavior deeply rooted in alienation from God. Sin originated in the darkening of the human mind and heart as man turned from the truth about God to embrace a lie about him and consequently a whole universe of lies about his creation. Sinful thoughts, words and deeds flow forth from this darkened heart automatically and compulsively, as water from a polluted fountain." (Richard Lovelace, Dynamics of Spiritual Life, Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1979, p. 89).

Sin flows from the heart (Matt. 12:35; 15:18; 15:19; Mark 3:5; 7:19; 7:21; Luke 6:45; Luke 8:12; 2 Cor. 2:4; 2 Cor. 4:6; I Tim. 1:5; 2 Tim. 2:22) it is more than just outward actions, although certainly outward actions are a part. But the outward actions occur because of the INWARD condition of our hearts and is why we need a new heart (Ezek. 18:31; Ezek. 36:26).

Look at Genesis 3:6a - When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate...

Note how James describes how sin is conceived in James 1:15 - Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Also in James 4:2 - You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel.....

Sin flows from within desiring, lusting, envy, rebellion. Its basically a focus upon selfish desires that flow from WITHIN. As we give in to these desires the outward actions follow. The outward actions are not in and of themselves 'sin', they are the manifestation of the inner condition of our hearts. The same way that coughing and sneezing are the outward manifestions when you have a cold of the inner problem which happens to be a virus.

Once you understand the self-centered focus of sin in each and every one of us, then you can understand than a hours old infant can indeed sin. When that infant demands food, demands to be changed, and screams at the top of his lungs demanding that you satisfy his desires you can begin to see a very self-centered little guy and original sin in all its glory. As he grows he begins to demand more and more, even as a toddler taking a toy away from another toddler or throwing a temper tantrum to 'get his own way'. That's sin. It isn't just murder, or theft, etc. Its DESIRE and its rebellion. And an infant is just as capable of that as any adult.

And you still failed to provide one New Testament (or Old Testament for that matter) verse specifically stating that Mary would be free from sin.

1,095 posted on 05/06/2008 2:55:48 PM PDT by conservativegramma
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To: conservativegramma
You are demonstrating that you have no understanding of the sin nature.

And that's how I feel about you. Are we at an impasse?

Sin flows from within desiring, lusting, envy, rebellion. Its basically a focus upon selfish desires that flow from WITHIN. As we give in to these desires the outward actions follow.

Yes. As we give in. That is, as we choose what we know is wrong.

Of course our desires fuel our sins. But they are not the responsible party. Our will is. That's what Adam and Eve is all about. They chose to disobey. There's not even any mention about how good the forbidden fruit was, it's identity is basically irrelevant. What was important was the choice to disobey.

The outward actions are not in and of themselves 'sin', they are the manifestation of the inner condition of our hearts.

That's right, the outward actions are not the sin. It is our choice to give in to the inner desires in a selfish way. A capacity that children lack.

1,150 posted on 05/06/2008 4:16:56 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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