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To: MarkBsnr
[***There was no English translations of the Bible before Wycliff.***]

Your posts would indicate that your knowledge of history is equivalent to your knowledge of Scripture. The Venerable Bede, Aldhelm and Aelfric (Old English)preceded Wyclif by many centuries. Orrm and Richard Rolle were two of the first to translate completely into Middle English.

None produced a complete Bible in English.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm#english

So, you had better go and learn some history.

***The Roman Catholic Church preaches a false gospel of faith plus works and combines it with pagan traditions of Mary worship, rosary beads, thinking a piece of bread is God, Popery etc,*** ]

Boy, you seem to be really hung up on Rome. It is the Catholic Church (as opposed to an apostate one) to you and to the world since Jesus created it and the Holy Spirit commissioned it at Pentecost.

And the way you enter that church is by faith alone.

So, if you have another way to salvation, you belong to the apostate group.

We have the Gospel of Jesus given to us by Him and proclaimed by us for 2000 years. Catholics don’t worship Mary. The Rosary is a means to assist in prayer. I assume that your particular brand of theology allows prayer, right? The Eucharist, begun by Jesus who instructed us do this in memory of Him, is now declared false by pope ftD? Faith plus works is also false? Is James purged from your Bible? How about the Sermon on the Mount? Is that relevant or has that been snipped from your already abridged Bible? How many verses do you have left?

Oh stop your goofy word games.

Ofcourse you pray to Mary!

Yes, the rosary assists in prayer to Mary!

And the Lord's supper was never meant to be anymore than a simple remembrance (1Cor.11).

No one has the power to change a piece of bread into God.

James is not purged from my Bible, is Paul from yours?

James is speaking of being justified before men, Paul before God.

Two different aspects to justification noted in the dictionary meaning of the word.

***5 million people, 4.99 million illiterates and a couple of hundred copies created over 25 years. What was the effect on literacy? Almost nil. [ Actually, the thousands of Bibles that were created did a great deal to end illiteracy. ***]

Well, it didn’t help Protestant spelling very much. How great a deal did the couple of hundred copies created over 25 years make? Speak up now, don’t be shy.

There were thousands of copies made and when the printing press came hundreds of thousands and that is what broke the bondage of darkness of Roman ism that has spread over Western Europe.

***No thanks to the Roman Catholic Church who attempted to keep them in darkness and blindness.***]

The Church worked with Gutenberg to mass produce Bibles. Your mantra of darkness and blindness is seeming even more silly as time goes on.

The Church has never advocated giving Bibles to the common people and it was only with the rise of the Reformation Bibles that they felt compelled to make their own English translation.

[ ***The Roman Catholic Church had a control of Books just like it had a control of everything involved with the Government, since it was a branch of the Government. *** ]

Silly is as silly does. The Church was a branch of which Government? A one world government, or just selected countries?

And Rome didn't have a strong political influence in Western Europe before the Reformation?

Stop blowing smoke.

[ ***Freedom of speech is determined by the freedom to publish without restraints from any tyrannical organization. ***]

This is God’s truth. No wonder you guys vomit forth people that range from Rick Warren to John Calvin since you appear to be postulating that anyone can publish anything and claim its truth. Anyone can say anything and as long as they hang up a shingle and sell enough snake oil, they become the next Messiah until the church secretary tells TMZ about the menage a trois with the preacher, her and a male prostitute.

Thats right, and you freedom haters can do nothing but vomit out your venom.

[ ***The Roman Catholic Church did not have anything to do with the Canon. ***]

The Church declared it at a series of Councils. We determined it, you didn’t.

No, the church councils recognized what was already accepted by local churches long before.

[ ***Its Old Testament Canon is corrupt, having non-Canonical books in it and the New Testament was recognized by the real church before any corrupt religious organization got involved. *** ]

You believe the results of the Christian-rejecting Jamnia approximately 60 years after Jesus was resurrected and taken into heaven? Do you call yourself Christian or Jew?

No Council determined the Jewish Canon, they only recognized it.

[ ***Freedom of speech means allowing those things that are untrue to be published, so that which is true can be as well. ***]

So by this analogy, it would be good to claim that my food product had 10 grams of sugar per serving when it actually had 50. Or, if you were my neighbour, it would be perfectly acceptable to take out a MySpace account in your name and publish child pornography on it. Nice.

It seems that you might have a spelling problem also, how do you spell neighbor?

No, you can decide what you want to read and reject it if you choose to.

But you showing how Roman Catholics deal with freedom of press and speech.

As for your analogy is simply as ridiculous as the rest of your post.

[ ***What Christians believe is that the Pope is nothing more than a lying anti-Christ deceiving millions with the help of his father the devil (Jn.8:44) ***]

John 8 relates the words of Jesus to the Pharisees in the temple. Christians do not believe anything of this kind about the Pope; however they do believe it when it relates to the WCF and other horrific works.

True Christians have always believed that the Pope is an anti-Christ.

The Pope may not be THE final anti-Christ, but he will do as a type of him until the real one shows up.

[ ***There is still time for you to reject the RCC lies and receive the free gift of eternal salvation through faith in the Blood of Christ.(Rom.3:25). *** ]

,I> Still relying on misunderstandings of Paul and denying the Gospel of Jesus (you may wish to crack open Matthew - chapters 5 through 7 are of particular interest).

And nothing in those chapters contradict what Paul is saying.

And nothing said in Matthew 5-7 refers to anything that the Roman Catholic Church teaches.

I see nothing about Mary, the wafer God, Popes, indulgences, etc in those chapters.

[ ***If you don’t, you will end up at the great White Throne Judgment with the rest of the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, nuns who put their faith in an apostate, wicked organization instead of the Lord Jesus Christ.*** ]

So, in spite of the words of Jesus, you believe that you will not be Judged? Interesting. I’d love to be there to watch your reaction when you find yourself facing the Lamb of God.

Well, you won't see it because we are going to two different judgments.

I am going to the Judgment seat of Christ for believers and you are going to the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers, since you are clearly depending on your works for salvation.

You will have a long time to ponder why your rejected the clear words of scripture that stated salvation was by faith and not works.

1,342 posted on 05/26/2008 12:49:49 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: fortheDeclaration

***None produced a complete Bible in English.***

Yours is incomplete now. And it seems that it is missing more than the ordinary Protestant Bible is missing. It appears to be missing the Gospels.

***Oh stop your goofy word games.

Ofcourse you pray to Mary!

Yes, the rosary assists in prayer to Mary!

And the Lord’s supper was never meant to be anymore than a simple remembrance (1Cor.11).***

You have no idea what the Rosary is.

And you misinterpret Paul once again. Read the Gospels instead.

***The Church has never advocated giving Bibles to the common people and it was only with the rise of the Reformation Bibles that they felt compelled to make their own English translation.***

What about the millions of Greek versions out there? Or are you merely blinded as to Anglocentrism?

***Silly is as silly does. The Church was a branch of which Government? A one world government, or just selected countries?

And Rome didn’t have a strong political influence in Western Europe before the Reformation?

Stop blowing smoke.***

The question still stands. You claimed that the Church was a branch of the Government. Which one?

***I am going to the Judgment seat of Christ for believers and you are going to the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers, since you are clearly depending on your works for salvation.***

Lucky you. Sounds like you’re actually going to the Judgement Seat of Pauline misinterpreters, since there is nothing of Christ in your beliefs.


1,353 posted on 05/28/2008 11:29:26 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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