[Alamo-Girl]

And you should not treat me as your enemy, dear pgyanke! I am not anti-Catholic.

But I do point out Spiritual errors where I see them regardless of whose ox is getting gored.

And yes, I understand the Catholic reasoning of protecting people from themselves - that they might accidentally bring damnation on themselves by partaking in the Eucharist unworthily. But the will of God, the words of God, overrule the Catholic doctrine. Let the man examine himself, and so let him partake.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. - I Corinthians 11:28-30

The priest cannot know what is in the mind of those who do partake of the Eucharist. Some will be damned. And he cannot know what is in the mind of the ones the church has excluded from partaking of the Eucharist. Some will be wronged.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Corinthians 2:11-14

Thus the Catholic doctrine is in Spiritual error, and that is why I bring it to front burner.

We Catholics believe we have the Apostolic succession from these men to us.

We also claim Apostolic succession - not physical succession, but Spiritual succession. The same Spirit Who indwelt the Apostles indwells us.

I see the difference between the Catholic and Protestant views as if two people are looking at the same seven-faceted diamond but from different facets. The one sees images in the diamond - himself, his forebears, saints, etc. - and thus sees that to honor those images is to honor the Light which illuminates them. His emphasis is on the images, the physical. In this case, the physical Apostolic succession by laying on of hands.

The other looks into the diamond and is blinded by Light. He sees no images at all and thus, to him, seeing images in the diamond is to miss the revelation of God altogether. His emphasis is on the Light alone, the Spiritual. In this case, the Spiritual succession, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the will of God alone.

It is the same diamond and the same Light. As long as the one is aware of analogical knowledge (the picture of a man is not the man, the statue of Christ on the cross is not Christ on the cross) - he will not fall into Spiritual error.

You are not my enemy, dear brother in Christ. May God bless you with His peace and guidance!

To God be the glory!

[pgyanke]

Thus the Catholic doctrine is in Spiritual error, and that is why I bring it to front burner.

Thus? I certainly don't see the error you do.

I see the difference between the Catholic and Protestant views as if two people are looking at the same seven-faceted diamond but from different facets. The one sees images in the diamond - himself, his forebears, saints, etc. - and thus sees that to honor those images is to honor the Light which illuminates them. His emphasis is on the images, the physical.

It is a pretty analogy but incorrect. We do not look to others instead of God. We are part of God's family both temporally and eternally. We believe in the communion of saints. Those who have gone before and those who are here now participate in that same family mystery together.

Perhaps to add to your analogy... if Jesus is the diamond, then Protestants are blinded by the light and fail to see the diamond...

[Mad Dawg]

Please tell me again what you make of the "binding and loosing", the "keys", and the words of Christ in the upper Room on he evening after Easter Day.

And there are also advices to toss people out of the Church, are there not?

What do you think of them? AND, the default is to let someone receive communion, unless you know some reason to forbid it. We don't require photo-ID. (sometimes in the case of the Kennedys and such I think it might be a good idea ...)

[hosepipe]

[ The priest cannot know what is in the mind of those who do partake of the Eucharist. ]

And I might add... no one knows the state of the mind of the priest that is administering the Eucharist.. What if he be a child molestor, pedophile or pederast.. or just a homosexual(active or not).. or addicted to some other vice..

You know as, obviously, some have been, and still are..
Is the alleged Holy Spirit bound to honor the Eucharist.,.
Making the Holy Spirit a moron.. or worse..
What spirit are the Eucharoids subject to then?..

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I understand the Catholic reasoning of protecting people from themselves - that they might accidentally bring damnation on themselves by partaking in the Eucharist unworthily.

Right after college I was one of eight bridesmaids in an elaborate Catholic wedding celebrated during a high mass. The officiating priest was supposed to have been told who among the wedding party were Catholic and who were not. Therefore he was to refrain from giving the wafer of the Lord's Supper to the non-Catholics.

As I knelt among the crowded wedding party at the altar, eyes closed, the young priest apparently "forgot" and shoved a wafer in my mouth. Because I wasn't expecting it, I nearly choked to death right then and there. Another sacrificial lamb, perhaps, this time dressed in peach silk organza and white roses.

Flustered, the priest smiled, and under his breath, he quickly whispered, "Don't worry; it won't kill you."

Would that all of Rome thought likewise. 8~)

The Lord's Supper doesn't kill, and it doesn't save. It is a sign and seal of Christ's promise regarding His completed work on the cross. The only thing that saves is Christ's righteousness via His sacrifice at Calvary imputed to the fallen sinner by the will and purpose of God alone for His glory.

And that salvation doesn't change with any set of prescribed words or precise elevation. It is constant and eternal and rock-solid.