Posted on 04/27/2008 3:36:18 AM PDT by markomalley
The Catholic Church teaches that in the Eucharist, the communion wafer and the altar wine are transformed and really become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Have you ever met anyone who has found this Catholic doctrine to be a bit hard to take?
If so, you shouldn't be surprised. When Jesus spoke about eating his flesh and drinking his blood in John 6, his words met with less than an enthusiastic reception. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (V 52). "This is a hard saying who can listen to it?" (V60). In fact so many of his disciples abandoned him over this that Jesus had to ask the twelve if they also planned to quit. It is interesting that Jesus did not run after his disciples saying, "Don't go — I was just speaking metaphorically!" How did the early Church interpret these challenging words of Jesus? Interesting fact. One charge the pagan Romans lodged against the Christians was cannibalism. Why? You guessed it. They heard that this sect regularly met to eat human flesh and drink human blood. Did the early Christians say: "wait a minute, it's only a symbol!"? Not at all. When trying to explain the Eucharist to the Roman Emperor around 155AD, St. Justin did not mince his words: "For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him . . . is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."
Not many Christians questioned the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist till the Middle Ages. In trying to explain how bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, several theologians went astray and needed to be corrected by Church authority. Then St. Thomas Aquinas came along and offered an explanation that became classic. In all change that we observe in this life, he teaches, appearances change, but deep down, the essence of a thing stays the same. Example: if, in a fit of mid-life crisis, I traded my mini-van for a Ferrari, abandoned my wife and 5 kids to be beach bum, got tanned, bleached my hair blonde, spiked it, buffed up at the gym, and took a trip to the plastic surgeon, I'd look a lot different on the surface. But for all my trouble, deep down I'd still substantially be the same ole guy as when I started.
St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one instance of change we encounter in this world that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence or substance of these realities, which can't be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What was once bread and wine are now Christ's body and blood. A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the "sub-stance", what "stands-under" the surface, came to be called "transubstantiation."
What makes this happen? The power of God's Spirit and Word. After praying for the Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: "This is my Body, This is my Blood." Sounds to me like Genesis 1: the mighty wind (read "Spirit") whips over the surface of the water and God's Word resounds. "Let there be light" and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation. But why did Jesus arrange for this transformation of bread and wine? Because he intended another kind of transformation. The bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ which are, in turn, meant to transform us. Ever hear the phrase: "you are what you eat?" The Lord desires us to be transformed from a motley crew of imperfect individuals into the Body of Christ, come to full stature.
Our evangelical brethren speak often of an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus. But I ask you, how much more personal and intimate can you get? We receive the Lord's body into our physical body that we may become Him whom we receive! Such an awesome gift deserves its own feast. And that's why, back in the days of Thomas Aquinas and St. Francis of Assisi, the Pope decided to institute the Feast of Corpus Christi.
This is not a contest. They are both offensive.
A new Rubber Bible Scripture, dogma appears to be in the midst of being birthed--AMMENDING A VERSE IN THE UNRUBBERIZED BIBLE:
"To the pure all things are pure. To the Perpetually Outraged, all things are an outrage."
Presumed Ref:
[III PPPP 6:66]
Consider yourselves warned.
LOL! Tis true.
AMEN!
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." -- Matthew 5:11-14"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
The Holy Spirit is NOT NEEDED in almost all of them..
This is where I go spinning off into the void. I don't get it. Is there a place where the H.S. is not needed?
And on the other hand, there had to be dry bones before there could be a rattling and bone joined to bone and then skin and finally Spirit.
Sadly the Roman Orthodoxy is the one of the most scripted and hardened spiritual plays.It feels like we're talking about two different things! That is not my experience of liturgical prayer as a Catholic, not at all.
Depends on your meaning of ‘the church.’ Do you mean the Roman Catholic Church, the ONE true church, or the Body of Christ, the really one true church???
Easy for me to say.
But....If you've been taught it was Peter - not easy.
Why would you amend the Bible? That seems very odd.
You seem to have missed the fact we were talking about Biblical interpretation, not about the Doctrines and Dogma that have developed over millenia through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for trying, though.
They are one and the same. I look forward to your catching up with the rest of us...
Because they did NOT eat the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ and they were sinners like all the rest of us.
AMEN! Great news, brother!
O my soul, thou hast said unto the LORD, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee; But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight. Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips. The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot. The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage. I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons. I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore." -- Psalm 16:1-11"Preserve me, O God: for in thee do I put my trust.
Oh, dear. How many Hail Marys do I have to say for that assumption?
So there we go. When Jesus said, "This is My Body..." it was not His Body... because it is too hard to believe that it would be (John 6).
We are called to walk by faith and not by sight... I have found that Catholics do this better than most.
You do, every time somebody says something you don’t like, it’s disrespectful, or at least that certainly is how it looks.
And I really like your FReeper name. 8~)
You seem to use that word constantly. Most of it is NOT disrespectful, only disagreement.
I believe God ordained Christian denominations in order to keep us from having ONE church that would try to control everyone. Just like he tore down the Tower of Babel and scattered the people so they wouldn’t try to be Gods and build an edifice to heaven, he scattered religious people too. Just my humble opinion, of course. Wouldn’t it be a bit boring to have to follow ONE tradition when there are so many other rich ones to pursue?
Well, forgiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvve me. I’ve been sick for several days and just got on today. Day late and a dollar short, story of my life. Sigh. And I always try to be respectful in my discussions, even when I disagree.
No such thing as a "new" tradition is there?
Where and when then did the "tradition" of the Bodily Assumption Of Mary come from?
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