Posted on 04/27/2008 3:36:18 AM PDT by markomalley
The Catholic Church teaches that in the Eucharist, the communion wafer and the altar wine are transformed and really become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Have you ever met anyone who has found this Catholic doctrine to be a bit hard to take?
If so, you shouldn't be surprised. When Jesus spoke about eating his flesh and drinking his blood in John 6, his words met with less than an enthusiastic reception. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (V 52). "This is a hard saying who can listen to it?" (V60). In fact so many of his disciples abandoned him over this that Jesus had to ask the twelve if they also planned to quit. It is interesting that Jesus did not run after his disciples saying, "Don't go — I was just speaking metaphorically!" How did the early Church interpret these challenging words of Jesus? Interesting fact. One charge the pagan Romans lodged against the Christians was cannibalism. Why? You guessed it. They heard that this sect regularly met to eat human flesh and drink human blood. Did the early Christians say: "wait a minute, it's only a symbol!"? Not at all. When trying to explain the Eucharist to the Roman Emperor around 155AD, St. Justin did not mince his words: "For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him . . . is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."
Not many Christians questioned the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist till the Middle Ages. In trying to explain how bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, several theologians went astray and needed to be corrected by Church authority. Then St. Thomas Aquinas came along and offered an explanation that became classic. In all change that we observe in this life, he teaches, appearances change, but deep down, the essence of a thing stays the same. Example: if, in a fit of mid-life crisis, I traded my mini-van for a Ferrari, abandoned my wife and 5 kids to be beach bum, got tanned, bleached my hair blonde, spiked it, buffed up at the gym, and took a trip to the plastic surgeon, I'd look a lot different on the surface. But for all my trouble, deep down I'd still substantially be the same ole guy as when I started.
St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one instance of change we encounter in this world that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence or substance of these realities, which can't be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What was once bread and wine are now Christ's body and blood. A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the "sub-stance", what "stands-under" the surface, came to be called "transubstantiation."
What makes this happen? The power of God's Spirit and Word. After praying for the Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: "This is my Body, This is my Blood." Sounds to me like Genesis 1: the mighty wind (read "Spirit") whips over the surface of the water and God's Word resounds. "Let there be light" and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation. But why did Jesus arrange for this transformation of bread and wine? Because he intended another kind of transformation. The bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ which are, in turn, meant to transform us. Ever hear the phrase: "you are what you eat?" The Lord desires us to be transformed from a motley crew of imperfect individuals into the Body of Christ, come to full stature.
Our evangelical brethren speak often of an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus. But I ask you, how much more personal and intimate can you get? We receive the Lord's body into our physical body that we may become Him whom we receive! Such an awesome gift deserves its own feast. And that's why, back in the days of Thomas Aquinas and St. Francis of Assisi, the Pope decided to institute the Feast of Corpus Christi.
Thanks for your affirmation of Priceless Biblical truths.
Nega ting hung how de.
Probably not good Chinese but might communicate.
Sounds good.
I sure love the land and the people.
God’s best to you and yours as you love Him and them.
Not sure that I really get your meaning on the 2nd or 3rd pass.
Just so you’re not likening me to a Kennedy. LOL.
The writing of the Church Fathers is on the CCM (Catholic Cafeteria Menu). The RCC reserves unto itself the right to choose snippets which support their argument and put the remainder on the compost pile.
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I’ve long noticed that rather human tendency seemingly carried to the max in that edifice, alright.
You are the only one here being so absolute.
Now theres a concept to be debated.. Catholicism and Catholics are both people.. as "government" is just people.. People performing tasks..
Only to be eclipsed by what is evil? and what is good?..
You might have stumbled on a base for a good conversation..
Are sheep pens/denominations/clubs/schisms a GOOD THING?..
OR are they evil?...
Jesus did NOT forbid religious "clubs" but are they evil?..
I can argue that they are GOOD.. in the sense that buddism, hinduism, baptist'ism, and catholic'ism are good.. Sheep pens sorting religious proclivities into categories.. HOLDing pens while seeking "God" until you can hear the shepherds voice calling you OUT..
Because all God seekers are seeking God with what they have available to them.. What they are "open" to.. Even what they can "conceive" of as "God".. With some their God is very small.. with others their God is the "man behind the curtain(in OZ).. Yet others are open to "whatever".. What then is evil? and/or good?.. in the persuit of God?.. The seeking of God to know him/her or to debunk to notion of a God..
Could be an active and productive conversation.. but NOT for those afraid of the truth.. as far they can concieve of truth.. For this conversation could threaten a spiritual couch potatos world... and cause "him" get off his lazy ass..
SEE ABOVE...
I disagree . . .
However, even IF it WERE so, the RC edifice would merely be reaping what it's sown into the lives of millions of hapless undiscerning RELIGIOUS serfs around the world for many centuries vis a vis the
--RUBBER BIBLE OF THE RC EDIFICE --RUBBER HISTORIES OF THE RC EDIFICE --RUBBER DICTIONARIES OF THE RC EDIFICE . . .
Rather reminds me fairly vividly of the RC's hereon.
. . . paraphrased . . .
Spiritual 'truth' is the absence of opposition to the fantasies of Romanism.
If you mean Churches, not only did he not forbid them, he founded one: The Catholic Church.
"Romanism", Baptist'ism even Marx'ism are indeed sheep pens.. holding tanks until they "sober up"... Religion is indeed the opiate(booze) of the people.. People can get "drunk" on denominational "spirits".. Some are mildly intoxicated yet others are falling down gaw gaw.. Name your poison there are some that are intoxicated with it..
John chapter 10 holds "a truth" that can expose not only the intoxicated but the enablers too.. Not to speak of the sellers of the intoxicating "spirits".. Because they ARE being SOLD... A veritable liqour store of intoxicating spirits on this planet..
I referred to this thread as a game that Protestants could not win when self-appointed thread attack nannies were in charge. No one else calls what goes on here, a game, other than the nannies.
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Plenty true.
Though I do acknowledge that there are many gamey aspects of many exchanges hereon. LOL.
Well you can’t blame them, most are in heretical offshoots of the RC church... so they have been taught hatred of the church throughout their lives.
I think the most fitting response would be Petronski’s favorite verse . . .
EX 20:19
In other words—false on both counts.
The Protty congregations I’ve been a part of are LESS heretical than the RC edifice and I wasn’t taught hatred.
Hardly strawmen.
Centuries of evidence has accrued . . . evidence which most RC’s seem genetically blind to.
Then we have the very brazenly vivid demonstrations, pontifications, protestations and BEHAVIORS of many RC’ hereon to confirm our perspectives 100’s of times over, if not 1,000’s of times over.
Of course, it takes some visual, aural and mental accuities tuned to the truth frequency to detect such horrific errors . . . which seems to butt up against some chronic deficits of many RC’s.
HOGWASH.
more evident violation of Ex 20:19 on the part of the RC perspective.
It’s not been true about me. It is not true about me.
Reads like another RC fantasy to facilitate continued idolatrous comfort with a long list of such fantasies.
Personal attacks are not permitted.
No, no, no.
Wrong body function.
It’s my flying fingers that fling fountains of technicolor truth.
Well if he’s likely to vomit, there’s probably a reason
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INDEED!
Probably those 100’s of soiled Earth-Mother hankies some RC’s try so hard to force down my throat.
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