Posted on 04/27/2008 3:36:18 AM PDT by markomalley
The Catholic Church teaches that in the Eucharist, the communion wafer and the altar wine are transformed and really become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Have you ever met anyone who has found this Catholic doctrine to be a bit hard to take?
If so, you shouldn't be surprised. When Jesus spoke about eating his flesh and drinking his blood in John 6, his words met with less than an enthusiastic reception. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (V 52). "This is a hard saying who can listen to it?" (V60). In fact so many of his disciples abandoned him over this that Jesus had to ask the twelve if they also planned to quit. It is interesting that Jesus did not run after his disciples saying, "Don't go — I was just speaking metaphorically!" How did the early Church interpret these challenging words of Jesus? Interesting fact. One charge the pagan Romans lodged against the Christians was cannibalism. Why? You guessed it. They heard that this sect regularly met to eat human flesh and drink human blood. Did the early Christians say: "wait a minute, it's only a symbol!"? Not at all. When trying to explain the Eucharist to the Roman Emperor around 155AD, St. Justin did not mince his words: "For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God's word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him . . . is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."
Not many Christians questioned the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist till the Middle Ages. In trying to explain how bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, several theologians went astray and needed to be corrected by Church authority. Then St. Thomas Aquinas came along and offered an explanation that became classic. In all change that we observe in this life, he teaches, appearances change, but deep down, the essence of a thing stays the same. Example: if, in a fit of mid-life crisis, I traded my mini-van for a Ferrari, abandoned my wife and 5 kids to be beach bum, got tanned, bleached my hair blonde, spiked it, buffed up at the gym, and took a trip to the plastic surgeon, I'd look a lot different on the surface. But for all my trouble, deep down I'd still substantially be the same ole guy as when I started.
St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one instance of change we encounter in this world that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence or substance of these realities, which can't be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What was once bread and wine are now Christ's body and blood. A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the "sub-stance", what "stands-under" the surface, came to be called "transubstantiation."
What makes this happen? The power of God's Spirit and Word. After praying for the Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: "This is my Body, This is my Blood." Sounds to me like Genesis 1: the mighty wind (read "Spirit") whips over the surface of the water and God's Word resounds. "Let there be light" and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation. But why did Jesus arrange for this transformation of bread and wine? Because he intended another kind of transformation. The bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ which are, in turn, meant to transform us. Ever hear the phrase: "you are what you eat?" The Lord desires us to be transformed from a motley crew of imperfect individuals into the Body of Christ, come to full stature.
Our evangelical brethren speak often of an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus. But I ask you, how much more personal and intimate can you get? We receive the Lord's body into our physical body that we may become Him whom we receive! Such an awesome gift deserves its own feast. And that's why, back in the days of Thomas Aquinas and St. Francis of Assisi, the Pope decided to institute the Feast of Corpus Christi.
As between at least potential friends:
I wouldn't count on the cat.
I would agree. There are many people today masquerading as Christians and have substituted holiness for other things. We should pray that God may open their eyes to the truth but as far as respecting them as Christian brothers while ignoring the errors; that is something we are not to do.
My cat loves me, but I sometimes get the impression he would rat me out in a hot second for just a handful of kibble.
And sometimes, when I wake up to find him staring at me, it’s as though the expression on his face says “Soon...”
Heck, I'd agree with that. We do best when we have no power. The whole Vatican City thing is, IMHO, a polite fiction. I can understand how it happened, the sense that the Pope needed an army and all, but I'm sure glad we don't think so any more.
Thanks.
That enlarges my understanding of the RC Rubber Dictionary.
While there is truth to this statement, I consider that as an excuse for our weakness. He has given us His Spirit and commanded us to be holy even as He is holy. If, and when, we fail it is our fault and our responsibility to seek forgiveness for not relying upon His Spirit. Christians can be led by the Spirit or by their own will. One is good; the other is bad.
“Not so. You’ve made a judgment about Catholicism without all the facts.”
No, I made an observation about communion in one Roman Catholic Church. But what are the facts that were missed? Isn’t the command to eat the bread and drink the wine and is not the Eucharist one of the seven sacraments?
I can find no fault in those statements.
I know.. I was just "needling".. snarkly... producing a comment about what "needles" me.. in the wholr post..
If Presbyters require some elected authority to preside over the "lords table" I think it is just as "funny" as I think the RCC custom is.. Never knew they were so "lame".. But then, Dawg, I think any elected presbytery is lame.. SO SHOOT ME... Myself and the writer of the books of Timothy would have gone round and round.. But then I am a heretic... what would you expect..
Christ is present in the host and wine, it is not necessary to partake of both.
Please think about the import of what you are saying for a minute: The priests were naive and trusting.
Is that such a terrible thing?
Even as an Episcopalian, I told children presented to me for preparation for confirmation that this HAD to be their decision, that if they did not want to be confirmed I would go to bat for them against their parents.
With my own child, I asked her to consider what I had given up to be Catholic and then I assured her that I could not and would not force her to be confirmed, and said, "All I ask is that you don't blow it off. It's important. Please take it seriously. I will support you in whatever you decide. I love you more than I love my life."
Only a very wise and shrewd cleric— far, FAR wiser than I — should, IMHO, challenge the sincerity of those who come to him for .. whatever. I would rather be ripped off by ten altar boys than turn away one sincere one because I was over-suspicious. Sometimes it's better to be thought a fool and to be taken advantage of.
You are not required to partake of both the wine and the eucharist to receive communion. One may, but partaking of one or the other is no less receiving than than getting both.
Absolutely.. Some(one) of my Buddist friends is/are the best christian I know.. On the other hand many legalistic christians are fair Buddists but don't know it.. Some people never learn a damn thing from the law.. WHich if followed strickly will show you you cannot follow it.. Many orthodox Jews are clueless as well..
Rote prayer is treating God like a moron.... or a Robot..
At least my experience of it.. I don't paint catholic only either.. In many protestant prayer meetings over the years the prayer could have been written on placards.. people praying to impress each other.. ALL of them praying like that, No, but most of them.. People can only pray from the heart.. If the heart is empty the prayer will be too..
I believe God will hear you whether Buddist, RCC or prosties maybe even Jesuits if you pray from the heart.. Telling God what you think he wants to hear fools no one.. Except some people fool themselves..
It would be best if you didn't "paint" anyone.
“Christ is present in the host and wine, it is not necessary to partake of both.”
But wasn’t the command to eat the bread and drink the wine? That seems like a command to do both. Where is there any license to just do one of them?
Is the bread his actual flesh and is the wine his actual blood?
See post #1195. I should have included you in that one. Sorry.
Thank you.
I'm painting you NOW...
THERE... Now don't you look silly..
Until its been consecrated, it is simply wine.. you cannot defile wine that has not been cosecrated.. its only wine.
Wow, can anyone remember the name of the famous historical heretic that said this type of thing?
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