3rd part
You may believe the Holy Spirit abandoned the Church, we do not. OF COURSE I DON’T BELIEVE HOLY SPIRIT ABANDONED THE CHURCH! SHEESH. What a false assertion.
My apologies. This usually comes from non creedal Protestants. Those who think no Church – Catholic or Protestant is an instrument of Grace and who reject the idea of any Church having authority over its members. Corporate worship is inferior to that of the individual. Indeed corporate worship is often seen as a barrier to one’s relationship with Jesus Christ. These guys engage in a lot of Church shopping.
NEITHER do we believe that Holy Spirit turned the church leadership or congregations into mindless slave robots doing 100% only His bidding at any particular level.
Nor do we and if I gave that impression I must take better care in my writing. I believe in free will. But it is my hope that I will by the grace of God put my will totally under the Will of God. If that is slavery I rejoice in the chance to feel its yoke.
This is why we differ so greatly in so many of our beliefs. Many Protestants believe there is no visible Church. BALDERDASH. We believe the visible church is not synonymous with, equal only to THE RC EDIFICE!!!
Again I was thinking more in terms of non Creedal Protestants who reject both the majority of Protestant denominations and Catholic and Orthodox churches. I should have made that clearer.
That each believer is given the Charism to be protected against the error of heresy. I don’t know any Protty that believes that. I’ve heard of some that do but I don’t know any personally. Y’all don’t like Prottys telling you what you believe—yet here you feel quite comfortable telling us what we believe. That old RC EDIFICE DOUBLE STANDARD STRIKES AGAIN! Disgustingly so.
Again the problem arises because there are so many different Protestant denominations. Obviously those Protestant denominations which have articles of faith or confessions of faith and who have ecclesiastical authorities who determine if heresy is being taught do not believe this. But again I do hear the argument “it is what I believe the Bible says so that must be what it means” I am sure you have met your share of these believers.
That all Biblical passages need no interpertation by anyone outside of the reader. HOLY SPIRIT DID PROMISE TO LEAD EVERY BELIEVER FOLLOWING HIM CLOSELY INTO ALL TRUTH. HE PROMISED THAT. Protty’s didn’t. God did. We trust Him to keep His promises IN HIS WAY AND IN HIS TIME AND TO WHATEVER DEGREE, SPEED ETC. HE CHOOSES TO DO SO.
But this assertion seems to contradict your statement about the individual not being protected from the error of heresy. Because that is what truly matters. Can the individual when reading Scripture be sure that how he interprets a passage is correct? Remember Gnostics, Arians, etc were believers who justified their teachings by citing Scripture. So how does the individual know what is Truth? No doubt the Holy Spirit is active in the life of the believer and no doubt the Holy Spirit does lead the believer into a deeper appreciation and understanding of Scripture. But does the Holy Spirit give the individual authority to interpret Scripture and to preach doctrines contrary to the teachings of Christianity? I mean those doctrines agreed upon by Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox. Such as the Trinity.
You would never, ever agree on the Catholic definition and understanding of Church. Because of this you are unable to separate the acts of sinful men within the Church from her claim to having the fullness of Truth.
YEAH, when the RC Edifice claims to have a seamless purity and homogeneity in doctrine, dogma, leadership etc. from the gitgo [while History demonstrates that’s plainly false] and MANY EXAMPLES THROUGH THE CENTURIES OF CHANGES AND WHOLESALE ERROR AND HERESIES AND CORRUPT MAGICSTERICALS AND CORRUPT EVIL POPES . . .
We had corrupt Popes who knew??? But honestly the argument about freedom from error is not based on the merit of any person as I have explained before. And do not confuse the existence of heresy from the early days of the Church with the Church not being consistent in Her teachings. Or with the Church not being given the grace to answer those heresies and refute them.
WELLL DOH! YEAH! the claim of infallibly pure doctrine, dogma etc. is wholesale laughable and brazen hogwash on it’s face. Any 4th grader can see that the rationializations and hoops the RC Edifice expects folks to jump through WITH THEM only leads to deeper and deeper depths of convoluted nonsense in Alice’s rabbit hole.
Now you are just being snarky and I will assume you got tired. I get grumpy and snarky too at times. Then I start falling into the “ I know you are but what am I” school of debate.
I do appreciate your effort to inject some reason from your side. I just have to note . . . the effort seems to have failed miserably on a list of counts—reasonableness being but one of them.
I pray God’s grace continues to illuminate your life. That the hope, trust, faith and love you have for Jesus Christ will always keep you on the narrow path. That all you do is offered to Him for His glory.