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To: suzyjaruki
probably before the foundation of the world. Oh!! golly, gee, that’s why it isn’t in scripture - the planning meeting took place before scripture was written.

Do you have any actual sources, like with URLs, which you can adduce to support the allegation that the Cahtolic Church teaches that Mary collaborated with God before the foundation of the world?

Do you have even ONE official Catholic Source which makes that suggestion?

Or is this just another instance of a false and unsubstantiatable charge?

It's so limiting to have to confine oneself to the data, isn't it?

844 posted on 04/06/2008 9:04:12 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg; suzyjaruki; 1000 silverlings; Quix; wmfights; blue-duncan; HarleyD; Marysecretary
Do you have any actual sources, like with URLs, which you can adduce to support the allegation that the Catholic Church teaches that Mary collaborated with God before the foundation of the world?

lol. Just one?

We've been told over and over by the RCC that Mary was saved before she was born, therefore her birth was "immaculate," thereby supposedly permitting her to "die sinless."

Since God elects from the foundation of the world, Mary's salvation was likewise determined by God from the foundation of the world by the "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

However, the RCC incorrectly extrapolates this gift of grace given to all believing Christians and works up a fierce paganism to adorn it (as if salvation itself weren't enough) by its putrid insistence that Mary was born without sin, lived without sin and was bodily assumed into heaven.

MARY, MEDIATRIX OF ALL GRACES

"But the Immaculate Virgin participates in the Mediation of Christ in a unique and singular manner. That is why she is called the Mediatrix of All Grace. Our Lady cooperated profoundly as did no one else with the salvific work of the Savior; this association is the principle underlying her universal mediation. First, Mary is Mediatrix because by her humble and obedient fiat at the Annunciation, she became the Mother of Jesus Christ Who is the source of all grace. Secondly, the Blessed Virgin Mary associated herself in an intimate way with Christ's act of redemption, especially as she stood beneath the Cross on Golgotha. And thirdly, the Blessed Mother's great holiness makes her a powerful intercessor in obtaining graces for mankind.

Many theologians assert that Mary's mediation also means that from the time of her Assumption she has personally cooperated with her Divine Son in communicating all of the graces that He has and continues to bestow upon mankind. As St. Bernard of Clairvaux said in a famous formulation: "God has willed that we should have nothing that did not pass through the hands of Mary."

As pointed out earlier, the faith of Abraham did not pass through Mary's hands. Christ Himself saved Abraham, as He alone saves all those who are His.

861 posted on 04/06/2008 2:13:18 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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