First my comments, FWTW:
From a Baptist viewpoint, being baptized is only a symbol, and nothing more. In other words, for a Baptist, baptism isn't really necessary for salvation.
Wince! I'd like this brother to understand the difference between "ordinary" necessity and what you might call "absolute" necessity.
I am intrigued about the requirement of Baptism before Eucharist. There are plenty of Protestants around here (Central Virginia) for whom "the Lord's Supper" is no big deal and anyone can partake, baptized or not.
I quit harassing the Catholics so much and tried to see them as fellow Christians rather than "the enemy."
I wonder if the reason that doesn't happen much on FR is that people fear that if they do that, pretty soon they'll be "kissing the Pope's toe".
"So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. (John 4:46, KJV)"
Grape juice? When I first came to Virginia the only work I could get was stoop labor in a Vineyard. (I still hurt from it - and I seriously think that the fungicide we sprayed has compromised my health a little.) I did get to see where our grapes were crushed. It was pretty revolting. It's a big operation to refine Welches off of squeezed grapes, and then if you don't pasteurize it it'll start "cooking" from wild yeasts pretty soon anyway. Still "new wine" it is. Jesus never drank fermented wine, we all know that. And I am the Queen of Romania.
I started dating a younger Catholic girl who lived in the Dallas area.
Catholic girls! Our secret weapon!
To Oliver Optic
I was reading the Hahn's book, "Rome Sweet Home," and the question occurred to me ... how do Catholics explain Mary and the saints being able to hear and respond to thousands of prayers at one time?
Obviously the answer is: GREAT secretarial staff!while I have concerns about the sort of practical "omniscience" ..., it ain't OMNIscience, it's LOTSiscience. (Free neologism, no extra charge.)
Then, we think that heaven and those in it are not bound by time. Not only is a thousand years like a moment, but a moment is like a thousand years. AND prayers, even to saints, are, what shall we say, "conveyed" by the Holy Spirit by whom we are all made one body in Christ.
To Papertyger
Another case of STS.
Yep. Log that puppy.
Oh, oh! thread's getting ugly, I'm outta here.
Jesus never drank fermented wine, we all know that. And I am the Queen of Romania.
Nice to finally meet you!
In Ephesians 5:18 Paul doesn't say, "Do not drink wine." That would be a complete prohibition. Instead, he says not to drink wine to excess--quite a different thing. The Church teaches, and common sense corroborates, that wine, like food, sex, laughter, and dancing, is a good thing when enjoyed in its proper time and context. To abuse any good thing is a sin, but the thing abused does not itself become sinful. "Everything is lawful for me," writes Paul, "but not everything is beneficial. Everything is lawful for me, but I will not let myself be dominated by anything" (1 Cor. 6:12).
If Jesus had shunned wine and wanted his followers to do likewise, as you suggest, why did he so frequently make use of wine in his parables and activities? Simple--he didn't disapprove of wine drinking, so long as it conformed to the biblical guidelines of moderation. The Bible tells us Jesus drank wine (Luke 7:34)--often enough, apparently, that his detractors accused him of being a drunkard--and that his first recorded miracle was to turn water into wine (John 2:1-11).
After reading the account of the wedding at Cana one might legitimately wonder why, if Jesus turned water into grape juice, John goes out of his way to quote the headwaiter's remarks: "Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one"? No matter how freely one drinks grape juice, it won't impair one's ability to discern between good and inferior grades.
"Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is my body." And He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." Matthew 26:26-28
This 'Last Supper' was a seder meal. A typical paschal meal includes the roast lamb, bitter herbs, haroset, matzoh and wine, not grape juice.