In the original context, Joseph was facing intense persecution by many people, including some he had previously considered to be his friends. This statement was supposedly made about a month before he was killed. He made it after reading chapter 11 of 2 Corinthians to the congregation. Note the following statement by Paul, in this scripture:
“Again I say, let no one think me foolish; but if you do, receive me even as foolish, that I also may boast a little. That which I am speaking, I am not speaking it as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. Since many boast according to the flesh, I will boast also. For you, being so wise, bear the foolish gladly. (2 Corinthians 11:16-19)
Paul then launches into a literary tirade where he claims many things to make himself look the fool, to contrast himself with those who the Corinthians were listening to for their words of salvation, instead of to him. His words were meant to compare and contrast what the Saints at Corinth were doing against what he was offering.”
Do you all similarly dismiss the words of Paul and deny his calling as an Apostle because he used such a literary approach that included boasting? No, you don’t. Yet, yo dismiss Joseph Smith when it is clear by his own statements, in context, that he engaged in the exact same literary approach. Consider the words of Joseph right after reading this chapter of Paul’s to the congregation:
“My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did, I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down; but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.”
Then Joseph makes the statements that the critics attack, in the same way that Paul made outrageous “boasts” to contrast his position with the position of those who the Corinthians were starting to listen to. Paul starts the next chapter of 2 Corinthians with the statement “boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable.” So, it would appear that Paul recognizes the necessity of boasting at times (though it may do little good, being unprofitable), yet the antis do not allow Joseph to follow Paul’s advice and, of necessity, boast at times.
Perhaps you are all are unaware of Paul’s advice? Or perhaps you apply a double standard where Paul is allowed such literary and rhetorical license, but Joseph is not?
Such double standards seem to be the calling cards of those that lurk these threads.
Joseph was a humble servant of God, his numerous writings attest to that. He was also a man, mortal and driven by righteous indignation and anger at what was done to the Saints and to him. I don't blame him anymore than I blame Paul.
Take a look at yourselves, and your approach to anti Mormonism. You carefully select context-less snippets that you think will drag a man down, destroy the faith of others, and make yourselves appear better among men (on FR anyway) How is this somewhat prideful approach any different than what you are accusing Joseph (or Paul) of?
Take a step back and look what you are doing and how you may be affecting not only others, but yourselves as well?
There, I'm done with my soapbox. Time to get back to work!
Paul was a humble servant of God.
Possibly Paul's most famous analogy was his comparison to a clay jar. (2 Corr. 4) In those days as today, clay pots were relatively cheap. Their value lie in their contents -- anything from precious spices and oil to human excrement. Paul's only value came through Jesus and His message. This theme was extended throughout 2 Corinthians, including the passage you cite.
Joseph Smith was anything but humble.
Examples of Joseph's vanity abound. In addition to the one posted earlier, consider these gems:
I combat the errors of ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the gordian knot of powers, and I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth-diamond truth; and God is my "right hand man." Joseph Smith, History of the Church vol. 6, p.78)Re. Joseph makes the statements that the critics attack, in the same way that Paul made outrageous “boasts” to contrast his position with the position of those who the Corinthians were starting to listen to. Paul starts the next chapter of 2 Corinthians with the statement “boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable.”If the people [of Missouri] come on us to molest us, we will establish our religion by the sword. We will trample down our enemies and make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean. I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Quran or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us – Joseph Smith or the Sword Joseph Smith, History of the Church vol. 3, p.167)
Joseph was boasting in an attempt to Joseph's ministry.
Joseph was under attack by some of the Latter-day Saints (i.e. his own flock) for many of the practices spelled out less than a week later in the Nauvoo Expositor. And as noted in the posting (and not denied in your response) Joseph was blatantly deceitful when he denied ever engaging in the horrible practice of polygamy.
Bottom Line: Joseph's "I'm greater than Jesus" remark was not taken out of context, was not unique and was not intended to portray Joseph as a humble servant of God. Rather, Joseph was attempting to establish his authority and lying in order to save his butt.
What the false prophet Joseph Smith said is of comparison, whatsoever, with Paul, who NEVER set himself up to be GREATER and superior to Christ Jesus, your attempts at making it somehow "EQUIVALENT 'literary' TACTICS," notwithstanding. Taking out of context? I think it is not us who are guilty of that:
2 Corinthians 11:
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.The above chastisement, given out of fear that the believers were turned or turning away from CHRIST and the true Gospel of Christ, as given through the words of the Apostle Paul and, instead, were believing the words of a FALSE PROPHET and a false gospel, does not, in one iota, resemble the following words uttered by the false prophet, called Joseph Smith, who sets himself up to be greater than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.16 I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.
17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.
21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.
22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
32 In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:
33 And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.
I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil – all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam … Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me … God knows that the charges against me are false … what a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can find only one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers.