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Haven't Anti-Mormons Completely Destroyed the Credibility of Mormonism?
jefflindsay.com ^ | Nov. 5, 2006 | Jeff Lindsay

Posted on 02/16/2008 3:13:15 PM PST by restornu

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To: narses
Try that again, use simple words. As written it means nothing.

Omama talk!

661 posted on 02/19/2008 6:13:55 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: narses
Try that again, use simple words. As written it means nothing.

OBama talk!

662 posted on 02/19/2008 6:14:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy; narses
We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I think that means she doesn't know how many gods there are.

663 posted on 02/19/2008 6:15:41 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy; presently no screen name; narses
Double BARF!

Meanwhile, the LDS Missionaries are doing their part, loving and serving people for no pay, being persecuted on a daily basis, and rejoicing in it.

Photobucket

664 posted on 02/19/2008 6:18:27 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Bill Richardson: Billions for boondoggles; Not one red cent for Jenny Craig.)
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To: Zakeet
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience as dictated by the President of the Church,
 
 
Now, that not exACTly right, for the President is followed ONLY if the 12 Demi-Presidents vote UNANIMOUSLY that what HE said, was, indeed, coming from GOD.
 
 
 
I've never had an answer as to WHY the Living Prophet®  has to have a dozen yes men to back him up.
 
None of the OT prophets did.

665 posted on 02/19/2008 6:20:20 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy; narses
I am not required to answer any questions about my faith.

narses - SURELY you know this by now!


 
 
 

 
 
 

 
We are not...

666 posted on 02/19/2008 6:23:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Old Mountain man
Because it is true.

Why don't you let HER answer; if she wishes?

667 posted on 02/19/2008 6:25:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: sevenbak

NIV John 10:34-36
34. Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods’ ?
35. If he called them `gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
36. what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God’s Son’?

ASV John 10:34-37
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
36. say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

KJV John 10:34-37
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


668 posted on 02/19/2008 6:27:38 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

>> BTW dmw, tell me how other Churches were attacked? <<

That ridiculous lie about 325 AD is a good start. Oh, wait, that’s not an “attack” because you believe it’s true, right?


669 posted on 02/19/2008 6:28:37 AM PST by dangus
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To: Old Mountain man
What is your problem with that?

None at all. MY 'problem' is that Joseph Smith, a mere 14 yo ignorant farm boy, with evidently NO knowledege of the warnings of Scripture; got deceived by two Angels of Light sent from Satan and has since confounded countless millions of people.

670 posted on 02/19/2008 6:30:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: P-Marlowe
What about your fellow Mormons. Why is it that they all refuse to answer the same questions?

Photobucket

671 posted on 02/19/2008 6:38:16 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Bill Richardson: Billions for boondoggles; Not one red cent for Jenny Craig.)
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To: P-Marlowe
BTW I just think it is quite telling that you guys simply refuse to answer the question.
 
Oh heck!
 
Let ME help you with getting an answer.
 
 

Bruce R. McConkie, in his work The Mortal Messiah, Vol.1, Pg.407-408 under the heading " Lucifer and the Law of Temptation" has the following to say;

    "Hence, there is -- and must be -- a devil, and he is the father of lies and of wickedness. He and the fallen angels who followed him are spirit children of the Father. As Christ is the Firstborn of the Father in the spirit, so Lucifer is a son of the morning, one of those born in the morning of preexistence. He is a spirit man, a personage, an entity, comparable in form and appearance to any of the spirit children of the Eternal Father. He was the source of opposition among the spirit hosts before the world was made; he rebelled in preexistence against the Father and the Son, and he sought even then to destroy the agency of man. He and his followers were cast down to earth, and they are forever denied mortal bodies. And he, here on earth, along with all who follow him -- both his spirit followers and the mortals who hearken to his enticements -- is continuing the war that commenced in heaven."

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.,the LDS prophet, wrote in his work, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, Pg.218 -Pg.219

    "We learn from the scriptures that Lucifer -- once a son of the morning, who exercised authority in the presence of God before the foundations of this earth were laid -- rebelled against the plan of salvation and against Jesus Christ who was chosen to be the Savior of the world and who is spoken of as the 'Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.'"
In the Discourses of Brigham Young, on Pg.53-54 he lets it be known that Lucifer is the second son, the one known as "Son of the Morning."

    "Who will redeem the earth, who will go forth and make the sacrifice for the earth and all things it contains?" The Eldest Son said: "Here am I"; and then he added, "Send me." But the second one, which was "Lucifer, Son of the Morning," said, "Lord, here am I, send me, I will redeem every son and daughter of Adam and Eve that lives on the earth, or that ever goes on the earth."
In the work of Otten & Caldwell, Sacred Truths of the Doctrine & Covenants, Vol.2, Pg.28 it is found that Lucifer rebelled against his "Heavenly Father."

    "We also learn that Lucifer ... was in authority..." in the premortal life. (See D&C 76:25) Authority in the presence of God is known to us as priesthood. In other words, Lucifer held the priesthood. We know that Lucifer rebelled against his Heavenly Father. One of the great insights given in this vision was the way this rebellion was manifested."

Through reading John A. Widtsoe's work Evidences and Reconciliations, Pg.209, it is learned that Lucifer strove to gain the birthright of his Elder Brother, Jesus the Christ and became Satan, the enemy of God.

    "The story of Lucifer is the most terrible example of such apostasy. Lucifer, son of the morning, through diligent search for truth and the use of it, had become one of the foremost in the assembly of those invited to undertake the experiences of earth. But, in that Great Council, his personal ambition and love of power overcame him. He pitted his own plan and will against the purposes of God. He strove to gain the birthright of his Elder Brother, Jesus the Christ. When his proposition was rejected, he forsook all that he had gained, would not repent of his sin, defied truth, and of necessity lost his place among the followers of God. He was no longer Lucifer, bearer of truth, who walked in light, but Satan, teacher of untruth, who slunk in darkness. He became the enemy of God and of all who try to walk according to the Lord's commandments. One-third of the spirits present in that vast assembly supported Satan and became enemies of the truth that they had formerly cherished. With him these rebellious spirits lost their fellowship with the valiant sons of God. What is more, they lost the privilege of obtaining bodies of flesh and blood, without which they cannot gain full power over the forces of the universe. In the face of that defeat, and that curse, they have sought from Adam to the present time to corrupt mankind and defeat the Lord's purposes."

James E. Talmage in his book, "Jesus the Christ," on Pages 132 & 133, discusses the council that is supposed to have taken place concerning "Free Agency" and the attack on it by Lucifer. He states that Christ may not have remembered the part He had taken in the great council of the "Gods" where the Firstborn Son's plan was chosen and Lucifer, the rebellious and rejected son's plan was refused.

    "The effrontery of his offer was of itself diabolical. Christ, the Creator of heaven and earth, tabernacled as He then was in mortal flesh, may not have remembered His preexistent state, nor the part He had taken in the great council of the Gods; while Satan, an unembodied spirit -- he the disinherited, the rebellious and rejected son -- seeking to tempt the Being through whom the world was created by promising Him part of what was wholly His, still may have had, as indeed he may yet have, a remembrance of those primeval scenes. In that distant past, antedating the creation of the earth, Satan, then Lucifer, a son of the morning, had been rejected; and the Firstborn Son had been chosen. Now that the Chosen One was subject to the trials incident to mortality, Satan thought to thwart the divine purpose by making the Son of God subject to himself. He who had been vanquished by Michael and his hosts and cast down as a defeated rebel, asked the embodied Jehovah to worship him. "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and behold, angels came and ministered unto him."

Neal A. Maxwell, in his book Deposition of a Disciple, on Pages 11 & 12 informs those interested that;

    "Lucifer knew about this plan, and his very pleading was real rebellion. The scriptures tell us plainly that he sought a throne above the stars and God. (2 Nephi 24:13.) Therefore, he was from the beginning a serious rebel. President George Q. Cannon said, "He was our brother, sitting side by side with our Redeemer, having equal opportunities with him. But he rebelled. He turned against the Father because he could not have his own way." This council was no abstract exercise. It reflected a deep, deep difference. Lucifer, by what he did, told us much more about himself than about his so-called offer. Clearly, he was already becoming an outsider, using (and trying to profit from) an insider's information."
Sterling W. Sill, writing for the Improvement Era, December 1970, Pg.79 states that the Son of God is Jehovah the warrior

.

    "We have national holidays to commemorate the birthdays of George Washington, the father of his country, and Abraham Lincoln, who saved it from dissolution. Both were our commanders-in-chief during important wars. Some of our more recent war heroes were John J. Pershing, Douglas MacArthur, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and our present great commander-in-chief, Richard M. Nixon. We should also keep in mind that the greatest of all military men was the Son of God himself. In the war in heaven, he led the forces of righteousness against the rebellion of Lucifer. We can also draw great significance from the fact that before the Savior of the world was the Prince of Peace, he was Jehovah the warrior."

Joseph Fielding Smith's Gospel Doctrine, on Page 371 states that;

"The devil knows the Father much better than we. Lucifer, the son of the morning, knows Jesus Christ, the Son of God, much better than we; but in him it is not and will not redound to eternal life; for knowing, he yet rebels; knowing, he is yet disobedient; he will not receive the truth; he will not abide in the truth; hence he is perdition, and there is no salvation for him."

Bruce R. McConkie, in his definitive work, Mormon Doctrine, on page 744, says;

    "This name-title of Satan (Son of the Morning), indicates he was one of the early born spirit children of the Father. Always used in association with the name Lucifer, son of the morning also apparently signifies son of light or son of prominence, meaning that Satan held a position of power and authority in pre-existence. (D. & C. 76:25-27; Isa. 14:12-20.)"

To plainly state that Jesus (Jehovah) and Lucifer (Satan) are brothers the writings of Spencer W. Kimball, the LDS prophet, must be considered;
 

Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, April 1964, Pg.95

    "There is another power in this world forceful and vicious. In the wilderness of Judaea, on the temple's pinnacles and on the high mountain, a momentous contest took place between two brothers, Jehovah and Lucifer, sons of Elohim."
Spencer W. Kimball, Faith Precedes the Miracle, Pg.87

    "There is another power in this world, forceful and vicious. In the wilderness of Judea, on the temple's pinnacle and on the high mountain, a momentous contest took place between two brothers, Jehovah and Lucifer, sons of Elohim. When physically weak from fasting, Christ was tempted by Lucifer: "If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread." (Luke 4:3.) "Similarly Satan had contended for the subservience of Moses. Satan, also a son of God, had rebelled and had been cast out of heaven and not permitted an earthly body as had his brother Jehovah. Much depended upon the outcome of this spectacular duel. Could Lucifer control and dominate this prophet Moses, who had learned so much directly from his Lord?"

Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pg.216, The Savior's Example

    "The importance of not accommodating temptation in the least degree is underlined by the Savior's example. Did not he recognize the danger when he was on the mountain with his fallen brother, Lucifer, being sorely tempted by that master tempter?
      Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Pg.67, AUTHOR OF SALVATION

"Thus when the Father presented his own plan in the pre-existent council, he asked for volunteers from whom he could choose a Redeemer to be born into mortality as the Son of God. Lucifer offered to become the Son of God on condition that the terms of the Father's plan were modified to deny men their agency and to heap inordinate reward upon the one working out the redemption. Christ, on the other hand, accepted the Father's plan in full, saying, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever." Our Lord was then foreordained to a mission which in due course he fulfilled, which mission enabled him to make salvation available to all men. (Moses 4:1-4; Abra. 3:22-28.)"

The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, Pg.33

    "But thank God that there were enough sane and sagacious souls on the side of truth and wisdom and the rebellious souls were vanquished as to the eternal and ultimate program. The principal personalities in this great drama were a Father Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgment, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah. (12/19/59)"

    "Satan tempted both Christ and Moses. There is another power in this world forceful and vicious. In the wilderness of Judaea, on the temple's pinnacles and on the high mountain, a momentous contest took place between two brothers, Jehovah and Lucifer, sons of Elohim. When physically weak from fasting, Christ was tempted by Lucifer: "If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread." (Luke 4:3.)"

The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, Pg.163

    "The importance of not accommodating temptation in the least degree is underlined by the Savior's example. Did not he recognize the danger when he was on the mountain with his fallen brother, Lucifer, being sorely tempted by that master tempter? He could have opened the door and flirted with danger by saying, "All right, Satan, I'll listen to your proposition. I need not succumb, I need not yield, I need not accept -- but I'll listen." 
 
 
Is this good enough; or will only SCRIPTURE references work for you?

672 posted on 02/19/2008 6:39:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: bonfire
I have had Mormon neighbors in three different cities and have come to realize that they don’t really know exactly what they believe. Most of us non-mormons have a better grasp than they do. But ask them about their lifestlye, practices, etc... and they can talk your ear off!

I am in the presense of a TRUE prophet!!!

#567

673 posted on 02/19/2008 6:41:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
So . . . you know what Mormons believe better than Mormons know what they believe. Very interesting . . . and downright presumptuous. Whatever.

YOU have been asked to state what you beleive, but you refuse.

Do not complain when others do it for you.

674 posted on 02/19/2008 6:42:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

Abraham 3 = BOOK OF THE DEAD


675 posted on 02/19/2008 6:43:17 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MHGinTN
Now now, you know that tainted ‘Mormon meat’ will not be acknowledged openly by these apologists.

It WILL end up being recalled - all 143 millions pounds of it!

676 posted on 02/19/2008 6:44:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
Gee you are pretty thick PM, this has been answered many times over the years, everything is archieved here FR, I am sure you will find several who have answered this question~

Who typed THIS for you?

677 posted on 02/19/2008 6:46:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: tantiboh
Yes, in many cases... when those sources are removed from context.

Then feel free to post them IN 'context' and just show the world how evil we out-of-contexters are.

Here is your chance to really expose us!

DO IT!

678 posted on 02/19/2008 6:48:20 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: farmer18th
I don't see how those two statements can be reconciled. Was the former statement incorrect?

Who can tell?

THIS is historical FACT!!!

 
 
 


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?


"If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph"
--Brigham Young
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224



And...

It is in their SCRIPTURE!

679 posted on 02/19/2008 6:50:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Zakeet

So according to his own words, Joe Smith is greater than Jesus, correct?
Well, well doesn’t that pretty much say it all?


680 posted on 02/19/2008 6:50:31 AM PST by svcw (The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.)
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