Haven't Anti-Mormons Completely Destroyed the Credibility of Mormonism?

jefflindsay.com ^ | Nov. 5, 2006 | Jeff Lindsay

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Ho hum. More of “my religion is better than your religion”
Let me know who wins. You schoolkids have fun.

[Tennessee Nana]

God still talks to His Church today, and he uses His Prophet, President Monson.
__________________________________________

God talks directly to me...

Jesus died to give me a direct relationship with God...

if He doesnt talk to you or you’re not listening to Him, there’s something wrong with you...

[Zakeet]

Re: Can you please provide me with just one link that shows you have [attempted to answer my challenge]? ... I gave up doing so last summer.

My first posting on Mormonism was in October 2007. Again, I challenge you to provide a link.

Re: Are these not genuinely valid questions? ... They are valid. They are also answered. Ad nauseum.

Still one more time, I challenge you to provide a link.

Re: Intent of learning something and engaging in thoughtful dialogue, rather than an attempt to lay a rhetorical trap.

I want nothing better than to enter into a thoughtful dialog. Of course, that necessitates an examination of facts. How about we start examining those presented in my Challenge?

I'm not sure what you mean by laying a rhetorical trap. Would you please define the term and provide me with an example where I have done this?

Re. And what assurance do you require? ... Your word will be fine.

I assure you we both agree time and all eternity is at stake, and it is therefore critical to learn the truthful answer to these questions.

[tantiboh]

~”God tolerates nothing from us”~

Interesting. So, evidently, the Grace of Christ is null and void in your eyes. Hm, ironic that a Mormon should be arguing with an Evangelical in advocacy of the role of Grace in matters of salvation.

[tantiboh]

~”God talks directly to me...

Jesus died to give me a direct relationship with God...”~

It’s good that you’ve recognized that the two are distinct beings. It seems we’re making some progress. You might one day yet be a Mormon!

[tantiboh]

~”Again, I challenge you to provide a link.”~

And I have declined that challenge.

~”Still one more time, I challenge you to provide a link.”~

No. You know the answers, or can find them easily.

If you are ignorant, I’m not going to indulge your laziness. If you are not, I’m not going to indulge your sophistry.

~”Would you please define the term and provide me with an example where I have done this?”~

I did not accuse you directly; I commented generally on the MO which you are implementing. If you shoe doesn’t fit, I suggest you don’t wear it.

~”I assure you we both agree time and all eternity is at stake, and it is therefore critical to learn the truthful answer to these questions.”~

Word games are always interesting, but I will take this as your declining to provide assurance that your questions are asked in good faith.

For my part, therefore, this conversation is over. Have a nice evening.

[MHGinTN]

God is not into religious toleration because to do so insults His Grace offered ONLY through Jesus. When one of these in service to his father the devil tries to twist the Grace of God in Christ to make it appear that you are being unChristian if you do not tolerate their heresies, best to let them hang there and twist slowly in the wind of their own deceits.

[Zakeet]

Re: BECAUSE ACCORDING TO MORMON THEOLOGY SALVATION IS NOT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, BUT JOSEPH SMITH ...

False ... The quotes you have provided indicate that Smith will be a judge in Israel, under Christ, when the great day comes. Just as the Apostles and Prophets throughout all history will be, for their own respective stewardships ... The idea that salvation is through Joseph Smith is a twisting of LDS teachings

But according to the quotes listed HERE:

1. [There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.

2. No man or woman ... will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith.

3. Joseph holds the keys and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him.

Whom should I believe? The Mormon Church leaders who made these statements and Mormon Church Documents who contain them, or you?

[Tennessee Nana]

~”God tolerates nothing from us”~

Interesting. So, evidently, the Grace of Christ is null and void in your eyes. Hm, ironic that a Mormon should be arguing with an Evangelical in advocacy of the role of Grace in matters of salvation.
____________________________________________

Again I say...

God tolerates nothing from us...

If he did, then Jesus would not have had to come and die on the cross and shed his blood to save us...

You idea of “the Grace of Christ” is null and void in God’s eyes...

God sent His son to die for us...

We either believe and are savede or chose not to believe and are damned..Mark 16:16

All the grace etc that Joseph smith can muster up cant save anyone...

Joseph Smith and the modern day “phophets” of the mormo n cult have nothijng to do with Jesus and His saving Grace...

What Jesus did was a finished work 2,000 yearsa ago..

Jesus established His church then and the same church has continued since then...

The gates of Hell have not prevailed against it Matthew 16:18

No man since Jesus has ever done anything to add to or change the Church, the body of Christ..

Neither Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, nor Harold Armstrong has a lock on the church...

Jesus did a complete work...

[Tennessee Nana]

“prophets”

[restornu]

Why are there songs in the Mormon Hymnal praising Joseph Smith? I’ve never seen any honoring Calvin or Luther or the Wesley brothers. Christian hymns all praise Jesus Christ.

***

They were not prophets!

I remeber as a child singing a song about Abraham

Go Down Moses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W76QjLsQADQ

The Song of Moses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b13Rg0h3sBU

The GOD Of Abraham Praise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS87nk37sH0

Song Father Abraham - Cullen’s abc’s (ouch)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oJSeD3X7zE

[nicmarlo]

It’s good that you’ve recognized that the two are distinct beings. It seems we’re making some progress.

Jesus is the Son of God, the Word of God, and is God. He is also the CREATOR, not the CREATURE. Jesus is above ALL, including the angels.

Hebrews 1:

1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the
prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son,
whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he
made the universe.
3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the
exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by
his powerful word. After he had provided purification for
sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he
has inherited is superior to theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father"? Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son"?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world,
he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
7 In speaking of the angels he says,
"He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire."
8 But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

[nicmarlo]

Jesus shed His precious blood and died in your place, Resty, just for you...

Amen!

[Greg F]

Devastating video.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***They were not prophets!

I remeber as a child singing a song about Abraham***

I don’t remember any songs about St Paul or Peter either.

[tantiboh]

~”Whom should I believe? The Mormon Church leaders who made these statements and Mormon Church Documents who contain them, or you?”~

My explanation to you was clear. If you did not understand, it is because you have chosen not to.

Just in case you are having a rough time:
- The LDS Church teaches that prophets will be judges in Israel on judgment day. Just as they spoke in Christ’s name in life, they will judge in His name in they afterlife.

- Because Joseph Smith was a prophet, he will be one such judge, specifically for the dispensation over which he had stewardship (i.e. the current one).

- Because the fullness of the Gospel was restored through Joseph Smith, and because one must accept the fullness of the Gospel (whether in this life or the next) in order to receive salvation, one must therefore accept Joseph Smith as a prophet in order to receive salvation.

- Salvation comes only in and through Jesus Christ. We are saved by His Grace.

The above outline satisfies and explains all the quotes on the topic which you might produce, and is an accurate summary, to my knowledge, of LDS doctrine on the subject.

[tantiboh]

~”God sent His son to die for us...”~

Indeed. And I notice again, you have made a distinction between the two beings. We are coming into greater agreement all the time!

Welcome to the august club of Cultists and Heretics, Tennessee Nana.

~”All the grace etc that Joseph smith can muster up cant save anyone...”~

Excellent! Again, we are in agreement!

I’m truly getting excited here!

~”No man since Jesus has ever done anything to add to or change the Church, the body of Christ..”~

Well, mostly. There was that whole “doctrine of the Trinity” thing. But, hey, enough people have accepted that lie for it to become truth, so who’s counting? And, because we aren’t counting, I’ll skip the rest of the list of heresies that mainstream Christianity has embraced in the name of orthodoxy.

~”Jesus did a complete work...”~

Yep, yep, yep!

See? We’re gonna make a Mormon out of you yet!

[tantiboh]

~”Jesus is the Son of God, the Word of God, and is God. He is also the CREATOR, not the CREATURE. Jesus is above ALL, including the angels.”~

True, true!

Christ is not God the Father (as Hebrews 1:2-3, 8, which you quoted, indicates), but your statement is absolutely accurate.

See? Mormons and mainstream Christians are not so different after all!

Fantastic! We’re making real progress this evening.

[MHGinTN]

The lost cannot even allow themselves to see why they are lost: "- Because the fullness of the Gospel was restored through Joseph Smith, and because one must accept the fullness of the Gospel (whether in this life or the next) in order to receive salvation, one must therefore accept Joseph Smith as a prophet in order to receive salvation." mormonism gospel according to tantiboh

[restornu]

Excellent I love how you were able to show the similarities!