[HarleyD]

As to Augustine, you must have seen some of Harley's posts concerning Augustine's retractions, when they were, and what he was retracting. As I understand it, in many cases, Augustine's "final" answers were what Calvin and Luther were quoting from in support of their writings.

Absolutely correct. Augustine's Treatise on Predestination of the Saints was one of the very last treatise written by Augustine. He came to this understand late in his life and recalled many of his works which he recognized were in error. Less our Catholic friends say that this was a heretical doctrine, Augustine specifically references Cyprian, the great Church leader, as leading him to this truth.

I will say that I was listening to a message by Sproul on Romans yesterday. He mentioned how God wishes to illustrate to the world 1) His mercy and 2) His justice. With those who He has elected He shows forth His mercy. With those who He has not elected He shows His justice. People believe that God must be merciful to be just but they are mutually exclusive.

I bring this up because as I was going through Augustine's Treatise, I happened to noticed the same argument.

"Many hear the word of truth; but some believe, while others contradict. Therefore, the former will to believe; the latter do not will." Who does not know this? Who can deny this? But since in some the will is prepared by the Lord, in others it is not prepared, we must assuredly be able to distinguish what comes from God's mercy, and what from His judgment. "What Israel sought for," says the apostle, "he hath not obtained, but the election hath obtained it; and the rest were blinded, as it is written, God gave to them the spirit of compunction,—eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, even to this day. And David said, Let their table be made a snare, a retribution, and a stumblingblock to them; let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see; and bow down their back always." [Rom. 11.7.] Here is mercy and judgment

[MarkBsnr]

God does predestine some to heaven; he predestines none to hell. There is no Scripture that supports that contention.

We do not gainsay this from Augustine. We know and accept it. It is a pity that the Reformed do not understand that Augustine was a pure Catholic when he died. It’s okay to make that crossing even now.

[Forest Keeper]

Augustine's Treatise on Predestination of the Saints was one of the very last treatises written by Augustine. He came to this understanding late in his life and recalled many of his works which he recognized were in error. Lest our Catholic friends say that this was a heretical doctrine, Augustine specifically references Cyprian, the great Church leader, as leading him to this truth.

Amen! Thanks for clarifying that for me. I'm sure glad he lived long enough to be sanctified to that level. :) Praise God.

[Sproul] mentioned how God wishes to illustrate to the world 1) His mercy and 2) His justice. With those who He has elected He shows forth His mercy. With those who He has not elected He shows His justice. People believe that God must be merciful to be just but they are mutually exclusive. I bring this up because as I was going through Augustine's Treatise, I happened to noticed the same argument. ...

Great find, Harley. That's a great way to look at it. I guess Augustine was ahead of many modern day Apostolics (no reference to Mark) who tell us that God is mono-faceted, i.e. that God is only the human understanding of love and since he is nothing else He never kills in the OT, etc.