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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights; Cvengr; HarleyD; ...
FK: I am making a logical inference from what Jesus said, that man does not live by bread alone but on every word from God.

He didn't say that in your Bible. He said it according to the Septuagint, which your side rejects. You have got to make up your mind.

My mind has never changed, and He certainly DID say that in my Bible. I do not have to accept the Septuagint in its entirety to accept what Jesus said. In most cases the Septuagint and the MT agree. You appear to try to be painting a picture that the two texts are wholly incompatible when that just isn't the case. The quibbling you are doing over the word "word" is so minor it makes no difference. It's a non-issue, as the context makes clear.

FK: If everything that comes from God is divine in essence then everything in the world is divine in essence. So, your argument falls apart since no one goes around or believes that anyone should worship everything in God's creation.

So, then, what God makes is not perfect??? God makes imperfect things? What a sloppy "God" you believe in! No wonder people have no respect for environment.

Where do you see that in my post? God makes what He makes perfect for its intended purposes. God made the rocks He made perfectly according to His design, but He does not want us to worship them. Rocks are not divine.

Were we not created in God's image and likeness, or did God create us as depraved, decrepit, evil sinners? Wait, the Reformed God would do that, of course! It all makes sense now! :)

God did not create Adam's sin, but He did allow it to corrupt all men since. So, the fact that we are totally depraved when born is not on God.

Except that they "are" God's words because you choose to believe they are. You have no proof whatsoever that they are.

I cannot prove anything to one who is already predisposed and committed to believing the reverse. In those cases facts are irrelevant.

FK: Well sure. That's what John 14 means: John 14:25-26 :...the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Just as I thought, you added the word "scriptures" to this! See how things get corrupt? It says nothing of scriptures. It doesn't specify how the HS will illuminate us.

So, your reasoning process says that illuminating the scriptures IS NOT included with "all things" nor reminding people of what Christ said??? OK.

Except when it comes to Paul, of course. He tells us things Jesus never told others.

You can't possibly know that. You must know that not everything Jesus ever said appears in the Gospels. Paul wrote some things that do not specifically appear elsewhere in the Bible, but so what? The few and selected red letter verses that you only accept are not the whole revelation.

How could Jesus, an observant Jew, criticize the faith He did not come (or want) to change?

He criticized the Pharisees and others who misapplied the faith by following a works-in-exchange-for-Heaven model. The faith that God handed down in the OT was never about earned salvation regardless of how many Jews followed it then or how many Christians follow it today.

His "opposition" was to some of the people for their misinterpretation (too literal) of the Law. He never said works-based worship was wrong and pointless and unnecessary. Paul does.

Your logic seems to be that if Jesus didn't say something specifically in the words you "need" to hear, then He must necessarily have endorsed its opposite. That's just nonsense. What Jesus DID specifically say was that the work of God was to believe, not to earn points through works.

FK: First comes grace. Then one learns what to have faith in. Then one has faith. The overall point is that if one prays from "nothing" then it is not going to be heard by God.

What is grace?

Well, many whole books have been written about what grace is, but in this case I am talking about saving grace. I would say that is that certain gift from God that regenerates a man, infallibly causing him to come to faith, in the cases of those of the age of reason.

And why would you want to learn what to have faith in?

Because otherwise one's faith is blind, baseless, and pointless, since it is not in anything real. If I announced that I suddenly had true faith in a head of lettuce and you asked me why, I don't think you would be very impressed if I just told you there was no reason, since my true faith was blind and baseless.

FK: No, because what do you believe IN?

Love. Isn't grace unmerited love received from God? Through grace, we recognize God through love, not in some rumbling volcano or in a burning bush.

So if anyone loves anyone then you would call that person a true believer?

What is it that you confess? The law and the prophets. Why, the Bible tells us it's love. Well, then, describe what Love is.

I am unaware of where the Bible says to blindly confess generic love in "anything" for salvation. We confess our knowing faith in Christ. It is specific.

6,755 posted on 07/30/2008 8:12:16 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper

Whew, you sure have your work cut out for you. Your answers are good ones! Thank you for being a staunch defender of your faith.


6,768 posted on 07/31/2008 7:12:28 AM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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