Where does Christ speak of "salvational grace?" Get real.
Aside from 2 Cor. 12:9 where does Jesus EVER speak of any kind of grace, by name? That doesn't mean the principle isn't clearly laid out in scripture. Do you say you do not believe in saving grace? I wouldn't argue with you if you said you didn't. Saving grace doesn't match Apostolic theology, since in that theology there is a premium on the works and decisions of the person. The mover and shaker of a man's salvation is the man himself, with some help from God of course.
Mark: If Adam and Eve could fall from grace, surely we can fall from grace as well.
FK: Apples and oranges. You can't compare when the starting positions were so opposite.
Kosta: What? If man, who knew no evil and had it all, could fall from grace, certainly the wounded nature we all have can do the same a lot easier.
It isn't the same. In the way the term is used today, "falling from grace" usually means to lose one's salvation. Adam technically wasn't "saved" before he sinned, so we cannot compare what Adam did to a saved sinner losing what Christ's gift was. Adam had no need of Christ's gift UNTIL he sinned. The comparison doesn't hold since Adam was in a totally unique situation, never since repeated.
Exactly!
Synergism is just second-nature to men since it gives them control of their own salvation, and who doesn't like control?
But salvation doesn't work that way, regardless of how much we protest it was all our idea. God elects whom He will; men receive saving grace according to His decree from before the foundation of the world.
Or else He's not God; he's just a conductor on the train, and not the engine itself.
It's difficult to give up our egocentric desire to be in control and instead realize it is all of God. But by reading the Bible, it can be done, God willing. As the great Puritan theologian of the English reformation, John Owen, said...
"To say that we are able by our own efforts to think good thoughts or give God spiritual obedience before we are spiritually regenerate is to overthrow the gospel and the faith of the universal church in all ages." ("The Holy Spirit" by John Owen) "To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." (Works of John Owen: volume 3 pg. 433)
As is so often the case on these threads, in searching the internet for one thing we find another. Here's a wonderful excerpt from John Owen's book, "The Holy Spirit"...
...Spiritual darkness is in all men and lies on all men until God, by an almighty work of the Spirit, shines into men's hearts, or creates light in them (Matt 4:16; John 1:5; Act 26:18; Eph 5:8; Col 1:13; 1 Pet 2:9). ...The nature of this spiritual darkness must be understood. When men have no light to see by, then they are in darkness (Exod. 10:23). Blind men are in darkness, either by birth or by illness or accident (Psa. 69:23; Gen 19:11; Acts 13:11). A spiritually blind man is in spiritual darkness and is ignorant of spiritual things...""All men can be divided into two groups. They are either regenerate or unregenerate. All men are born unregenerate (John 3:3-8).