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To: Forest Keeper
Kosta: It can be debated if one can have a will without a need, in which case even the Biblical "will" of God is but an anthropomorphism. If all your needs are satisfied, what drives you?

To your first statement, how so? You are the one who is attaching human characteristics to God. The issue is "need" versus "want"

Oh I see, we are back to not speaking the same language, FK. Look up the definition of a "want" or a "need" and you will see that it they are inseparably connected to each other.

Logically, those who have no needs want nothing (some call it a "bliss: and others just "dead").

Saying that God "wants" implies that God "needs." And that is anthropomorphism. And, we know that the Bible is full of such divine "desires" because we cannot write a book about God without introducing anthropomorphism and therefore distortion of God as He really is.

We Give Him "hands" and "ears" and "eyes" and what not, and the left and right "side," and yet He is a Spirit that fills the entire Creation, that pre-existed the Creation.

If we stick with the limited concepts and words words we have, knowing that God needs nothing, we must conclude that if God does want something, it is for no reason whatsoever!

And that would create a God who does things random ply and wihtout a purpose. So, you see, our minds and words cannot explain why whatever created this existence does what it does, because our own words are anthropomorphic.

And the Bible leads to such an anthropomorphic idea of a God, a Zeus-like figure. That's why we concentrate on the message and not the story. We need to ask ourselves: what lesson is there, what is the revealed truth? For we believe in the revealed truth of God, expressed in imperfect words and concepts of the authors of biblical books.

For one thing God wants us to understand (eventually) every jot and tittle in the Bible

Really? And I thought He is telling us that we need to love God and others as ourselves. God doesn't want us to understand. God leads; men follow. When Jesus says things so that we may understand, he is referring to "understanding" in the heart, in the spirit He taught. He gave sermons, He performed miracles. He did things. He didn't have group discussions and Bible study groups, FK.

6,407 posted on 07/08/2008 11:11:06 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
Oh I see, we are back to not speaking the same language, FK. Look up the definition of a "want" or a "need" and you will see that it they are inseparably connected to each other.

I NEED food and water. I WANT a 1959 Cadillac (not pink). You don't see any difference here?

Logically, those who have no needs want nothing (some call it a "bliss: and others just "dead").

No, that can't be right since needs are limited and wants are virtually unlimited. God needs for nothing, but He surely wants innumerable things to happen within time. God does not need us. His existence and way of existence would be unaffected based on whether we ever came into existence. However, it is clear that He wants us to be here, else He would not have created, and that He wants to save His elect to be with Him in Heaven.

If we stick with the limited concepts and words we have, knowing that God needs nothing, we must conclude that if God does want something, it is for no reason whatsoever!

Not at all. While we may not always know WHAT His reasons are we can be sure THAT He has reasons, or else He is a random and directionless God. The Bible certainly does not teach that.

And that would create a God who does things randomly and without a purpose. So, you see, our minds and words cannot explain why whatever created this existence does what it does, because our own words are anthropomorphic.

OK, on some level we are sort of on the same wavelength. But here they are not OUR words, they are God's words given to us as His choice for us to understand according to our limitations. Of course we can't understand on God's level, but we CAN meaningfully understand on the level God has given us. Otherwise, it's all just a big tease.

FK: For one thing God wants us to understand (eventually) every jot and tittle in the Bible.

Really? And I thought He is telling us that we need to love God and others as ourselves.

Yes, the Bible gives us the HOW about loving Him and others. Jesus also specifically taught that we should learn the scriptures:

Matt 22:29 : Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

The way to avoid error is to know God's word.

God doesn't want us to understand. God leads; men follow. When Jesus says things so that we may understand, he is referring to "understanding" in the heart, in the spirit He taught. He gave sermons, He performed miracles. He did things. He didn't have group discussions and Bible study groups, FK.

What, content is irrelevant and what feels good in the heart is all that matters? Paul spends most of the NT dealing directly with content, not mysticism and feel-good vague notions. Of course God wants us to understand. Why else would He bother to communicate with us (if you believe that He does)? I want my dog to understand content to the best of his capability. Why would God want less for us?

6,408 posted on 07/08/2008 4:17:43 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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