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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
Why are Scriptures so very important to us? Because our faith is a way of life. The message of our Sunday scriptural passages are to be taken with us home and lived. Each chapter of the Gospel carries in it a moral of the story to be used and followed in our journey.

But that moral is determined by men, NOT by God. Therefore, the hope that you have must be in those men that you follow, that they were true believers and knew what they were talking about. All this in the midst of the corruption in doctrine that we have talked about that plagued the early Church.

The Church reads the Gospels and the Epistles as they are written without making judgment on their factual veracity. The Church is not concerned with the historicity of the events, but with the spiritual message in them. (bold added)

OK, I wasn't sure if that was just you or the whole Orthodox Church. If the Orthodox Church is not concerned with the historicity of the Bible, then I have my answer as to how it views the Bible, all Orthodox Catechisms and writings to the contrary notwithstanding. If one or a group is unconcerned with historicity, then they completely forfeit any foundation for whatever claims they have about their own faith. Why in the world would anyone follow Patristic writers if THEIR followers threw out the inspired authors of the Bible in terms of historicity? Fables based upon myths. Truly, all that is left is blind faith. Why should I follow Orthodoxy? "No reason per se", I imagine the response would be, "we just blindly believe it".

I was shocked some years ago when an Orthodox priest told me that even if Christianity never happened, it should have been invented! What he meant with that is that if it took a fictional narrative to convey the love of God, so be it.

That shocks me too. Men write fiction. God has no desire to, without making it obvious in advance as with a parable. I'm not going to put words in this priest's mouth, but it sounds like it is possible that he would agree that Christianity as we know it today was basically fashioned by man.

6,406 posted on 07/08/2008 12:30:36 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
I realize that I have been slow to answer the posts as there are other things going on right now, so please bear with me. I read all your posts and will eventually answer them without forgetting any.

But that moral is determined by men, NOT by God. Therefore, the hope that you have must be in those men that you follow, that they were true believers and knew what they were talking about

Provided the authors of the Bible wrote what they wanted, yes. But we believe that God revealed Himself to them and they, as best as they could, interpreted them within the context of their time and personal disposition. So, yes, they all contain some kernels of truth, whether they be moral truths, facts, or elements necessary for context.

When it comes to Gospels, the morals given to us in them are believed to be the eyewitness accounts of the Lord revealing those moral truths.

Our morality is based on the Gospels. If the rest of the Bible expresses the same morality, then it is accepted as that of Christ, our Lord and God, and such truths would be in harmony with the Father and the Holy Spirit regardless of time, geography or culture.

If I had to summarize Christian morality, I would say it is based on love and mercy

6,429 posted on 07/09/2008 9:40:34 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
All this in the midst of the corruption in doctrine that we have talked about that plagued the early Church

The doctrine was being developed as even the Apostles didn't have it all straight when they were left to tend for the Church. Evidence of corruption comes from St. Paul's Epistles as they all address deviant practices and beliefs of early Christians.

6,430 posted on 07/09/2008 9:42:47 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
If one or a group is unconcerned with historicity, then they completely forfeit any foundation for whatever claims they have about their own faith

The message of the Bible is timeless, because God is timeless. Truth is truth no matter when, where or how it is revealed. The Bible reveals the Truth through Christ our Lord. Christians always believed that the only way we can reach Truth bis through Chirst, and tha He is the Truth, the Way and the Life.

When He says "love your neighbor as yourself" that is transcendentally true and historically irrelevant.

6,431 posted on 07/09/2008 9:44:11 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
Why in the world would anyone follow Patristic writers if THEIR followers threw out the inspired authors of the Bible in terms of historicity?

Pastristic writings are commentaries on the truth revealed by the Gospels and seen through them in other parts of the Bible. None of the Patristic writings try to establish if the walls of Jericho really did come tumbling down and why, and in what year.

Truly, all that is left is blind faith. Why should I follow Orthodoxy?

We believe that Christ is our Lord and our God, as St. Mark said it. We believe that based on the Gospels. If you want to call that blind faith, so be it.

Orthodoxy is what the teaching of Christ and the Catholic Church is all about. We rightly praise God (that's what "ortho doxa" means), as we know Him from the Gospels. We know God through Him. That's why we are Christians, FK! :)

6,432 posted on 07/09/2008 9:45:25 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights
I'm not going to put words in this priest's mouth, but it sounds like it is possible that he would agree that Christianity as we know it today was basically fashioned by man.

Like Luther and Calvin? :) Surely, ever since the Pentecost there have been forces that tried to fashion their own version of Christianity. That's why there are Apostolic Fathers, Church Fathers and Patristcis who wrote to preserve the catholic and orthodox faith given to us by Christ, lest we stray. The history of Christianity is nothing but evidence that men try to fashion Christianity in their own image.

6,433 posted on 07/09/2008 9:46:25 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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