I have no proof that you would accept, just the Bible. :) One knows they are from God, when they are, the same way Joseph knew to listen to his dream and John knew to write down his vision. They were both believers, and God made sure they knew.
FK: How about Joseph's dream in the Gospels, did that never happen?
Of course not. It "happened" right when it was needed for the Gentiles to accept the faith without having to go through Jewish customs and circumcision. Very convenient.
OK, so if that part of the Gospels is also a lie, then you must think that Joseph was just delighted to marry Mary, thinking she had just been with another man while they were betrothed?
Jesus never told anyone to write down anything when He was on earth.
How can you know that since you reject the actual evidence concerning the subject? IOW, since you reject 97% of the Bible as fact, how can you know one way or the other what Jesus ever did or didn't do? It almost seems like you know something is false BECAUSE it's in the Bible.
Revelation borders on hallucination. If you want to treat hallucinatory experiences as eyewitness accounts, that's your prerogative.
We will both have the chance to tell God what we thought of His Holy word.
Revelation was written when it was necessary, given the context of where Christianity was at the end of the first century.
So, did God not even give His little "nudge" on that one? I.e., was Revelation inspired by your definition?
And what is God's revelation, FK? Dreams and illusions and hallucinations in a trans?
Sure, sometimes. God's revelation is in His Holy word which can be communicated through the printed page or directly through the Spirit. I believe the RCC fully accepts the concept of revelation through dreams and visions. For Catholics there are rules of course, any such revelation cannot be counter to Catholic teaching, etc., but I'm almost certain they accept the concept.
That would be acceptable were it not for the fact that there are others who claim their holy books do the same.
One knows they are from God, when they are
There are countless examples of people making such claims, and an equally countless number that were shown to be unreliable and outright false.
Your argument is placing the entire faith in a testimony of a single person's subjective experience. Talk about making a leap of faith!
Joseph knew to listen to his dream and John knew to write down his vision
That's what the Bible says. And I am not denying it. It may very well be that righteous Joseph and blessed John really did "know" or believed they know (this is why Gnosticism persisted throughout the ages and apparently subsists among the Reformed!).
The problem is proving it, because, by itself, the Bible has no reliability whatsoever. Like all other "holy" books, it requires an a priori faith. IOW, you must already believe that everything in it is true to "prove" that it is true! Which is no proof at all.
That's being a "religious hypochondriac," FK! :)
I didn't say it's a lie. I am only saying it is no proof. We know what the Bible says, but the Bible is an orchestrated collection of stories with an agenda.
Historical events show that Christianity was being suffocated in Israel, that the Jews en masse rejected Christ, and that the term "lost sheep of Israel" had to be redefined, and the entire ministry redirected to a more "fertile" ground.
History also shows that some of the apocalyptic beliefs and interpretations of the early Christians had to be redefined as well, as it became apparent that everyone who witnessed Christ say they will not taste death before His second coming was not what they had in mind.
Early Christians were urging followers to sell everything now, give their possessions to the needy, and wait for Christ to reappear. It was supposed to be imminent and within their lfietime. That's what the Apostles believed and taught.
The early Church also pushed the OT to the back burner. At the turn of the century, the Church becomes distinctly anti-Jewish, even going after those who insisted on keeping Jewish holidays and practices. The OT in its' entirety wasn't integrated theologically into the Church until Irenaeus, at the dawn of the third century. It was an after thought as well.
The whole movement was in a state of flux and the Church hierarchy, the Apostles and their successors, were struggling to keep the faith alive and in order to do that they had to make some pretty extreme course adjustments. I am not saying they were wrong, but it wasn't smooth sailing, for sure.
We will both have the chance to tell God what we thought of His Holy word
I do every day, FK, and a real God would know even if I didn't.
It may very well be! Now you are beginning to think like me. :)
Those of us who believe will say it was God guiding the Church. But the fact that such little interventions are necessary shows that nothing in our way of doing God's will is perfect, that our faith and worship and interpretations are individually fallible. History show us that even great theologians slip into error, and the Bible tells us that even some of the Apostles doubted Christ to the very end, and that all to a greater or lesser extent misinterpreted Him until the Pentecost.
As I pointed out earlier, the Pentecost was a turning point, when they ceased being followers and doubters and became irreversible believers and martyrs for faith. Something happened there and it was life-chaning and there is no denying it.
Sure, sometimes. God's revelation is in His Holy word which can be communicated through the printed page or directly through the Spirit
Totally disagree with you! The Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets says the Creed. You are separating HS form God. In fact, the Protestants seem to have a problem integrating God with the other two Hypostases. It's not surprising though.
God's revelation is realization that something must be not from this world. It's not God's "word." The words that describe this realization are ours and therefore imperfect and limited.
You are talking about little visions and voices that someone is putting in your head. That's insanity, FK. Hallucinations, psychotic experiences. Unfortunately, that's what so many people believe is revelation and then they God and kill their children because "God told me to."
Unfortunately, that's how most people are convinced that the Bible is true. They have to read it. People believe anything they read. "I saw in the New York Times, it must be true." I remember years back one of our assistants was from Russia (a mail-order bride of sorts). Her favorite "defense" was (in heavy Russian accent) "It must be true, it's in the kompyutr."
People like stories. They believe stories. We can communicate morals and messages through stories and make it "entertaining" and "fun to read." But this is our way of communicating. God's revelations are wordless realizations of where we are and perhaps even why.