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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
Reformed theology says that God intentionally created Satan for His own purpose because somehow this God of love absolutely can't accomplish anything without the evil one!

I never said anything like that. God did create satan, but it wasn't out of need. That is your addition to what you want to believe about Reformed theology.

Now you are telling me that God absolutely hates this absolutely needed accomplisher of God's "plan" and that, in fact, God created His own enemy" not only to use but also to hate! Oh boy! This is nuttier than Star Trek.

LOL! OK, from now on I will consider the Orthodox God as a satan lover. I will also assume that the Orthodox version of Christ died on the cross FOR SATAN!!! We are taught to love our brothers so I also assume that the Orthodox God wants and commands you to LOVE SATAN!!! Wonderful, and quite illuminating. The Bible says:

Prov 6:16-19 : 16 There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

satan embodies ALL of these things and more evil besides. The enemies Jesus is talking about are HUMAN enemies. According to your above we should pray for satan (Matt. 5:44), and we should do good to satan (Luke 6:27), and we should bless satan (v. 28). That sounds like a wonderfully Godly plan of salvation for you and I wish you the best of luck with it. I'm afraid it's not for me though. :)

FK: satan only acts according to his nature, pure evil.

Okay, and where does his evil nature come from? Who created that according to the Reformed theology? Was it not God? In other words, the Reformed theology teaches that God created pure evil, that He is ultimately the source and architect of evil.

I think it is fairly well accepted that satan was created as an angel, so he was not created evil but with the potential for evil. Once he chose evil over God his nature changed. If the human nature can change it certainly is possible for an angel's nature to change. Just as God did not prevent Adam from sinning, although He could have, so also He did not prevent satan from choosing the dark side. So, satan's evil nature came into being by satan's own hands.

And I thought God can simply change our hearts...but from the way you write it seems He really likes and needs evil.

That's an odd thing to say since you just told me that your God loves satan, who IS evil. :)

6,344 posted on 06/29/2008 1:44:14 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock
I never said anything like that. God did create satan, but it wasn't out of need. That is your addition

To refresh your memory I wrote: "Reformed theology says that God intentionally created Satan for His own purpose." I can only assume that's "because somehow this God of love absolutely can't accomplish anything without the evil one!"

In other words, is this the best the Reformed God cam come up with?

Surely you don't presume God does anything that He doesn't deem absolutely necessary and that what happens is the best possible choice He will come up with.

So, yes, according to this mindset, the Reformed God created the world with evil as a, no pun intended, being a necessary evil.

Kosta: Now you are telling me that God absolutely hates this absolutely needed accomplisher of God's "plan" and that, in fact, God created His own enemy" not only to use but also to hate!

LOL! OK, from now on I will consider the Orthodox God as a satan lover. I will also assume that the Orthodox version of Christ died on the cross FOR SATAN!!!

Where are you getting this from? LOL! Take a break, FK. Who said anything about God loving Satan? You called Satan God's enemy. Well, God didn't create His enemy so He can hate him. You are twisting this in a way that borders on perverse, imo.

The Orthodox believe that Christ died for all humanity; there is no mention of fallen angels being redeemed. Your conclusions are non-sequitur, unless you are trying to caricature the Orthodox without any evidence whatsoever.

Prov 6:16-19 : 16 There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes...

Wait, is this the same God who sends "perverse spirits?" You call that Christian?

According to your above we should pray for satan

There is nothing in what I wrote above that leads to that conclusion, because I never said anything like that.

I think it is fairly well accepted that satan was created as an angel, so he was not created evil but with the potential for evil. Once he chose evil over God his nature changed. If the human nature can change it certainly is possible for an angel's nature to change. Just as God did not prevent Adam from sinning, although He could have, so also He did not prevent satan from choosing the dark side. So, satan's evil nature came into being by satan's own hands.

That sounds positively orthodox, FK, but certainly not Reformed! :)

The potential for evil was his free will, which the Reformed deny. We choose our own perdition by rejecting God.

6,347 posted on 06/29/2008 8:32:15 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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