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To: Marysecretary

***It’s apparent that you don’t believe much in the gifts of the Holy Spirit.***

Oh I believe in them and I believe that they exist and that the Holy Spirit liberally distributes them.

I don’t believe that the Holy Spirit is leading prancing, dancing, strutting peacocks who claim that every deed that they do is led by the Holy Spirit, and that they personally are justified because they have a Gnostic belief that they personally are inhabited by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

I don’t believe these folks at all. I think that many are phony opportunists, many are sincere but misled, and many are simply wrong.

Jesus left us His Church. If your indwelling Holy Spirit is confirmed by the Church, then I will believe it. If you repudiate the Church, then logically, you cannot be led by the Holy Spirit.


610 posted on 01/30/2008 4:59:29 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Marysecretary
Jesus left us His Church.

So are you saying that Jesus came to give us 'His Church'? What's that based on?

When I read the earliest recordings of Jesus (The New Testament) I see that He left us the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-18,26,27 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.


If your indwelling Holy Spirit is confirmed by the Church, then I will believe it. If you repudiate the Church, then logically, you cannot be led by the Holy Spirit.

This is backwards of what we see in the New Testament. First, you don't see anywhere in the New Testament that the 'church' confirms the Holy Spirit. What you see is that the Holy Spirit is a gift to those that believe.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Act 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Second, the New Testament is filled with Paul and others instructing the church to be sanctified or purified through the Spirit.

1Cor. 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Obviously, the church is filled with falible humans who need a perfect comforter and guide. That comforter and guide is the Holy Spirit.
649 posted on 01/31/2008 6:28:58 AM PST by ScubieNuc (There is only ONE mediator between man and God....Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5)
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To: MarkBsnr

“The” church has nothing to do with my being filled with the Holy Spirit. He came when I received Christ as my Lord and Saviour and I can ask the Holy Spirit daily or any time I want to to fill me. Scripture says I can do just that. I know there are phonies in every denomination and many claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit but their FRUITS will decide whether they truly are or not. THE church has little or nothing to do with it.


921 posted on 02/01/2008 8:22:58 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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