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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Mad Dawg; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
But even 2,000 years later the Church does not come close to evangelizing "all nations"

Did God put a timeline? Look how long it took before the Hebrews received the Law. Look how long it took from that moment to the appearance of Christ. We could just as easily argue, form the reformed point of v view, that it took 2,000 years because God wanted it to take that long and that you have no business speeding up the clock. :)

IF you believe in an all-powerful God, then how can you say He loves everyone equally, if something as important as Heaven vs. hell for eternity is largely decided by luck? You can't

And if you believe in a transcendent God then why does it matter if it took 2,000 years; His salvation should be timeless.

And if you believe in predestination and God's plan then it must have been planned to take this long...

We're already there. My own pastor just got back from a mission trip to China.

China? Why not go to Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan and Israel where a conversion would be good in that Islamic fundamentalists would no longer threaten Israel and would cease supporting terrorism and the Jews would find brotherly love with former Muslims in Christ? :)

After all, isn't it the Evangelicals who love Israel because they expect the Jews to convert to Christ? Are your pastors trying to evangelize the Jews and Arabs? I think they are a lot closer to Christ, being Abrahamic, then the Chinese.

But China, being oppressive and all that, allows missionaries whereas Saudi Arabia and Israel have much less tolerance for the same.

5,362 posted on 05/05/2008 8:15:05 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Mad Dawg; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
FK: "IF you believe in an all-powerful God, then how can you say He loves everyone equally, if something as important as Heaven vs. hell for eternity is largely decided by luck? You can't."

And if you believe in a transcendent God then why does it matter if it took 2,000 years; His salvation should be timeless. And if you believe in predestination and God's plan then it must have been planned to take this long...

His salvation IS timeless and everything HAS gone according to plan. But what I'm saying is that the facts on the ground DO match the Reformed view, but they do not match the Apostolic view. We DO NOT say that God loves everyone equally. He chose from among all the people who would be saved and who would not be. However, if God loves everyone equally, then the facts on the ground do not match. The Church has never come close to reaching everyone, thus giving everyone a "fair" chance. Plus, if you see luck and environment as strong determining factors, then that would also seem to violate the "fairness" that Apostolics claim God's system employs.

After all, isn't it the Evangelicals who love Israel because they expect the Jews to convert to Christ? Are your pastors trying to evangelize the Jews and Arabs? I think they are a lot closer to Christ, being Abrahamic, then the Chinese.

I know we are trying to reach Arabs in the countries we can get into, meaning not countries like Saudi Arabia so much, and obviously Iran. And yes, we also have missionaries in Israel. I don't think my particular church has been involved with that so much, but I know it is done through the Southern Baptist Convention.

I'm not sure how many people "like" Israel for eschatological reasons. I've never thought of it like that. I like Israel because they are an anchor of democracy in a troubled part of the world and I also agree with them that they have a right to exist.

5,396 posted on 05/07/2008 2:30:20 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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