No, the Eastern Church never knew or believed Augustinian semi-Manicheaen error of the guilt of the original sin. The Eastern Church always knew of the consequences of the ancestral sin, which is death, to which all mankind was captive until Christ died on the Cross and resurrected, "trampling death by death."
But if we carry no guilt because of original sin, then what sins are forgiven through infant baptism? Doesn't your side believe that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins?
We DO carry moral guilt from our very beginning:
Ps 51:5 : 5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
And not only that, our penalty at conception is the same as Adam's:
Rom 5:12 : Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:19 : For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
I still don't understand how you differentiate between being innocent, but under the consequences of sin, from true moral guilt. Sin requires a payment, but if we are innocent then Christ did not die for our sins under your theology, He only died for Adam's sin. Is that how you see it?
Christ is Risen!
Voistinu Voskrese! :)
Infants carry as much "guilt" on account of Adam's abuse of his God-given freedom as a drug-addicted infant carries "guilt" on account of his drug-abusing mother—exactly zilch. But the infant suffers the consequences of both!
Baptism is the sacrament of adoption into the Church. We die unto ourselves and are re-born into Christ. Those baptized in the Orthodox Church are carried or led around the baptismal font three times and the congregation is singing St. Pau's words "For as many of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." [Gal 3:27]
Those who have sinned, and repented, their sins are forgiven and erased and they enter into the Body of Christ like an infant.
Baptism is restoration to grace. Some have more baggage to lose than others. Baptism is the supreme act of divine mercy (forgiveness) and love (adoption) accomplished by the Holy Spirit.
Of course, this must be accompanied by faith. For adults, that includes the reciting the Creed and rejection of Satan (exorcism). For infants, their godparents witness for them and oblige themselves to do everything they can to teach and raise that child in faith. It is an awesome obligation in Orthodoxy.
We consider godparents more important than natural parents, for if they raise the child properly in the life of the Church, chances are the biological parents will have none of the problems we see in kids raised without God in their lives.
We DO carry moral guilt from our very beginning: Ps 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."
Again, this is Judaism. Verse 6 is unintelligible!. And just in case you say "it's in the Bible," well so is verse 19 "Then there will be righteous sacrifices, whole burnt offerings to delight you; then bulls will be offered on your altar." Go ahead, kill a cow...it's in the Bible.
Contrast this with our Lord's words "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." [Mark 10:14]
Obviously, Christ didn't think they were examples of iniquity. Night and day.
Or consider this comparison to the OT "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist the evil one (πονερω, same word as at the end of the Lord's Prayer—a title denoting the crafty or evil one). If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." [Mat 5:38]
Night and day, FK.
And not only that, our penalty at conception is the same as Adam's: Rom 5:12 : Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned
This was addressed in a response to a recent post by HalreyD, who either didn't read it or didn't understand it. The wording in Paul's verse 5:12 is subject to interpretation. The native Greek speakers interpreted it one way and the non-native speakers the other way.
Your version of the Bible is telling you something the Greeks never read and understood in that fashion. St. Augustine's Greek was poor. He made a number of known translational errors. Unfortunately, such errors led to erroneous theology.
Rom 5:19 : For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous
He speaks of "many" not all. How does this square with his other statement that "none are righteous, not one?"
Besides all it says is that the consequence of Adam's sin is death I still don't understand how you differentiate between being innocent, but under the consequences of sin, from true moral guilt
Moral guilt comes from willful wrongdoing. Infants did nothing willfully wrong. They simply inherited the consequences of Adam's sin, a fallen human nature that will lead them into sin
When you really think about it, drug-addicted infants are really victims, as is the whole humanity when it comes to Adam's fall. This is why God decided to have mercy on us. While we are born innocent of any wrongdoing, we are bound to commit wrongdoing because our fallen nature inherited from Adam drives us to that end.
FK: Voistinu Voskrese!
I am impressed and deeply touched. Thank you.