The Old Testament says that. The OT is not the measure of Christ, but a foreshadowing of Him. The Jews also expected messiah to be a warrior king who wold smite his enemies the way the OT God does His. But God surprised them and left them dumbfounded: the King of Kings was anything but that! But His legacy lives on and shall live on forever.
Christ is our measure of God as we can understand Him. It's not second-guessing, but just as the Gospels describe Him. God is not Mercy that is merciless. God is not Love that doesn't love. God is not Virtue practicing vice. God is not Life causing death (sin).
Christ called us to follow Him and imitate Him. He didn't say "do as I say, not as I do." He wants us to do exactly as He does. He wants us to think as He does. He wants us to love as He does. He wants us to be(come) perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.
Christ doesn't say "It's mind over matter! I don't mind and you don't matter!" God forbid! He gave us minds and taught us virtue and forgiveness so that we know what is good, what is godly, what is our measure of His likeness.
Secondly, you assume that the ending of a physical life is always not in the best interest of that person, hence you say "murder" is something God would never do. I totally disagree
No, that's not what I am saying. Christ does not teach us that genocide is "godly" work! Again, we are called to imitate Christ. I really don't care what the Old Testament authros believed God was like. Obviously they had some idea that Chirst was coming but they didn't have a clear pictures of just what God would be like.
We Christians are followers of Christ Jesus and His teachings. Jesus defines what the OT says. That's why we are called Christians!. If the OT doesn't agree with Jesus, then the OT is either not fully revealed, or the revelation is not fully understood.
It sounds like someone around here is giving God orders about what He is allowed to do with the work of His hands. But I won't name names
That's silly, FK. :) The difference is that your God appears to be the "Zeus" of the OT and our God is Christ of the Gospels. It doesn't mean the OT is "wrong;" it simply reflects incomplete revelation of who God is.
That's all true, but what authority says it is vice for God to end a physical life?
We are talking biblical genocides. God didn't teach us justice and love and forgiveness in vain. He taught us all that in order for us to know what virtue is, so that we can recognize God's work and do the same in His name.
They are necessary to the extent that God wants them
But, you see, we call the Holy Spirit the Comforter, not a torturer. Perhaps in your religion God is both, but in those who follow and imitate Christ, God is only a source of comfort and love. He doesn't cause our illness and our sin. We do. He keeps rescuing us over and over even when we return nothing but evil.
They just don't determine salvation
The evil of the world is our test and our temptation. Depending on how much we succumb to it or how much we can resist it tells us how Christ-like we are. And those who are restored to their likeness of God (Christ) are saved. It's not a magic wand thing, FK. That's too pagan.
It's also necessary that we eat food, but that doesn't determine salvation either
Oh, spiritual food, the Holy Communion, helps sustain us, like the heavenly manna, in our struggle against evil. So, it is instrumental in our salvation. It's not enough to just take a "Jesus pill" and consider yourself saved.
I happen to think, though, that I am a stronger Christian, and thus more useful to God, because I have assurance. I can witness with more confidence than I otherwise would
So, you think that Kolo and stafassisi and other brilliant Orthodox and Catholic posters on these treads are wishy-washy, luke-warm, about their faith and witness in weakness and without confidence?
Sorry, I meant to ping you to this post (5278).
If God is an unchanging God, he is the same God in the OT as the NT. Just because he does some things differently does not mean he isn’t the same God. His attributes are all the same. God, in the OT, decided that all but 8 would die by flood. In the NT, God decides who will live with him in heaven, and who will go into hell. No different. It is God who decides according to HIS purpose, according to HIS will. Who are we, oh man, to tell the Lord of the Universe that he is wrong?
The Old Testament says that. The OT is not the measure of Christ, but a foreshadowing of Him. The Jews also expected messiah to be a warrior king who wold smite his enemies the way the OT God does His.
So, you look at what many Jews thought concerning the OT and on that basis declare both them AND the OT wrong? That is, you assume that those Jews were interpreting it correctly. Yet, you look at what NT heretics thought and declare ONLY the heretics wrong. You assume they were interpreting incorrectly. That is an interesting choice in turning God's word against itself, given that it was the Church who gave us God's word, as Apostolics are so fond of reminding me. :)
Christ called us to follow Him and imitate Him. He didn't say "do as I say, not as I do." He wants us to do exactly as He does. He wants us to think as He does. He wants us to love as He does. He wants us to be(come) perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.
So do you think the "highest" question is "what would Jesus do?". I do not. I think a higher question is "what would Jesus have ME do?". Think about it. Perhaps that helps to explain why you hold the opinion of the OT (and Paul) that you do.
It doesn't mean the OT is "wrong;" it simply reflects incomplete revelation of who God is.
Kosta, you CANNOT tell me that you do not think the OT is wrong given what you have said about it. :) The OT tells very clear stories with no misunderstanding in what is being claimed. You claim the truth is completely the opposite in MANY cases. You cannot say that is a simple "incomplete revelation". In a great many cases, what the OT claims is true and what you claim is true are TOTALLY incompatible.
So, you think that Kolo and stafassisi and other brilliant Orthodox and Catholic posters on these treads are wishy-washy, luke-warm, about their faith and witness in weakness and without confidence?
I don't know if they agree with you that faith is blind and objectively baseless. I also don't know if they agree with you that the reason for your faith is objectively no better than the one Muslims have, etc. I believe they do have no assurance in their own salvations, and thus are in no position to witness confidence to anyone else. The only confidence your side is able to preach is in an "if-then" statement that is totally dependent on the smart and independent decisions of "wounded" men. And even then, salvation is predicated on a thousand more "if-then" statements throughout life. To me, all of that is an extremely weak position from which to witness strength and confidence.