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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; wmfights; HarleyD; blue-duncan; irishtenor; 1000 silverlings; Quix
"From the beginning" is not "from the fall" or else Scripture would have said "from the fall" and not "from the beginning."

And if, as you theorize, Satan was created "good" but then he fell, how is Satan any different than Adam?

Or you or me?

Is Satan just some reprobate who chooses to sin?

No wonder the EO has a difficult time defining evil and men's fallen nature.

5,172 posted on 04/26/2008 10:55:39 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Thanks for the ping.

However, I gave up trying to wrap logic around some EO’s theological constructions on pseudo reality many months ago.


5,173 posted on 04/26/2008 11:43:30 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
Dr E to Kosta""And if, as you theorize, Satan was created “good” but then he fell, how is Satan any different than Adam?""

First of all,satan was and angel unlike Adam who was fully human but both were given free will to choose good or evil.

Second,God cannot will evil or it would be imperfection and error on His part.

Kosta is right ,Dear Sister.Your view of God is zeus like

Here is some more Aquinas to help you understand

That God cannot will Evil

EVERY act of God is an act of virtue, since His virtue is His essence (Chap. XCII).
2. The will cannot will evil except by some error coming to be in the reason, at least in the matter of the particular choice there and then made. For as the object of the will is good, apprehended as such, the will cannot tend to evil unless evil be somehow proposed to it as good; and that cannot be without error.* But in the divine cognition there can be no error (Chap. LXI). 3. God is the sovereign good, admitting no intermixture of evil (Chap. LXI). 4. Evil cannot befall the will except by its being turned away from its end. But the divine will cannot be turned away from its end, being unable to will except by willing itself (Chap. LXXV). It cannot therefore will evil; and thus free will in it is naturally established in good. This is the meaning of the texts: God is faithful and without iniquity (Deut. xxxii, 4); Thine eyes are clean, O Lord, and thou canst not look upon iniquity (Hab. i, 13).

Chap. XCII link
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_92.htm

Chap. LXI link
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_61.htm

Chap. LXXV link
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_75.htm

5,175 posted on 04/26/2008 3:12:45 PM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; wmfights; HarleyD; blue-duncan; irishtenor; 1000 silverlings; ...
And if, as you theorize, Satan was created "good" but then he fell, how is Satan any different than Adam?

Satan is different from Adam in that, being a spirit weithout a body, he cannot be tempted. Angelic fall is much more grave than Adam's. There is no redemption for the fallen angels. God even created the Lake of Fire specifically for the devil and his angels, but not for men. That an unknown number of men will follow Satan into the Lake is not God's doing; it is their choice. God will simply send them where they chose to be.

It is clear that those who clothed him and gave him water and all that allegorical stuff (in other words who did right things) will be the sheep, and those who did the wrong stuff will be the goats. Nothing predestined there. God knows, but he doesn't make out decisions.

No wonder the EO has a difficult time defining evil and men's fallen nature.

The EO have no problem defining evil and man's fallen nature.

The Church never taught that evil was coeternal with good and that evil was a creature of God.


5,176 posted on 04/26/2008 6:41:33 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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