My comment was meant to be akin to "washing the windshield helps make a car clean". We view sanctification as a lifelong process. Testing helps move that process forward. So does prayer (washing the doors), and so does good works(washing the trunk), etc. .............. Being sanctified brings us closer in our relationship to God, a thing God says He wants for us during our time here on earth. Many of the same things you count for theosis we would count for sanctification, so we should agree that they are worthwhile.
FK: Really? When does that ever happen from God? God never tests us to our ultimate harm, He only tests us to our ultimate good.
That's a politically correct answer, FK, but unfortunately it is false. The OT God you believe in does harm people.
When God executed His justice in the OT, it wasn't a test! :) Totally different subject.
It's just that if we go through a tribulation and recover, we call it "being tested," and if we don't make it, we call it "tempted."
I don't see it that way. I will grant that sometimes it can be difficult to discern which is which, but it is NOT outcome determined. For example, if my cable scrambled and I suddenly had the naked channel for free, my best guess is that it would be a temptation. However, if I got sick, and my choices were to either seek God for healing or curse Him for my sickness, then I would guess that to be a test.
In addition, my view is that this is complicated somewhat by the personal nature of tests and temptations. For example, if the naked channel happened to be the gay naked channel, then it really wouldn't be a temptation to me. :) So, theoretically, I do think that the same thing could be a test for one and a temptation for another. I just hold that it is not outcome determined.
FK: "One being tested "a lot" in no way means he is automatically "more sanctified" than one who is tested less. It doesn't match up like that. Everyone's individual levels of the various methods of sanctification are all over the place."
And how do you know that?
Because God uses more than one method to sanctify. Wouldn't you agree that theosis is achieved by various means? It's the same thing. So, God chooses to concentrate on Bible study for some, prayer for others, testing for still others, and there is a mix for everyone. There is no way to quantify that if I am tested more than the next guy, that therefore I am more sanctified than him. Who knows how the other guy has been sanctified by God? I "know" this by simple observation of what is.
FK: "I want to live on this earth EXACTLY as long as God wants me to, no more."
Why, aren't you lucky that's exactly what you want, given that you don't have any choice!
All it means is that I accept the order of the universe as God has put it forth. What could be wrong with that? :)
But [according to the Protestant/Baptist theology] it doesn't affect the outcome, FK! It's pointless. It's like having to take continuing education courses to keep your license current, even though you can't lose your license if you don't!
Being sanctified brings us closer in our relationship to God, a thing God says He wants for us during our time here on earth
But God doesn't specify how close is close enough! In other words, it's left up to the individual to determine. It all comes down to the man-made religion tailor-made for human ego and comfort level!
This is the same issue I have with Orthodox fasting rules the way they are presented. On the one hand, the Church says everyone should do their "best." On the other hand, they should not compete with others, or boast like the Pharisees.
The Church also doesn't explain what makes some foods "bad" when the Bible says all food is good! And the Bible also says that no one should judge another based on what they eat or don't eat.
What's much more important is how many old ladies did you help cross the street, FK, then if we read the bible, fast, or even pray. Have you shown mercy? Do no harm. Are your intentions pure?
In other words, be Christ-like, be perfect as your Father in heaven in perfect. Be good, God-like, as much as you can. Not minimum, not "just enough." Theosis is "becoming like God." Regaining His likeness. Restoring your original purpose.
Just because one goes to church every Sunday, and gives money to charity, and reads the Bible and prays a lot doesn't mean he is closer to God. Being closer to God means being God-like. Being less of what we are by nature, and being more what we can be by grace. That's what theosis is.
No it was murder. Killing children, no matter what the circumstance, is murder. Killing children is not God's justice in the Christian faith.
Kosta: It's just that if we go through a tribulation and recover, we call it "being tested," and if we don't make it, we call it "tempted."
FK: I don't see it that way. I will grant that sometimes it can be difficult to discern which is which, but it is NOT outcome determined.
Sure it is! We made the rule: if we "come out stronger," it was a test, and we are blessed; if we we are worse off, it was a temptation and we gave into it and are punished.
For example, if my cable scrambled and I suddenly had the naked channel for free, my best guess is that it would be a temptation
Oh, poor FK! And if you were to give in and watch "just a little," what would that do for your salvation? Nothing. And if you gave in to it and watched it all night long, would that make you less "saved?" Of course not.
So, what's the point even if it was a temptation and you gave in to it? You could say, I am only human and I still sin, but next time I may be able to resist. But, then, you could also say, God gave it to me and I took it. I harmed no one and I feel "blessed." :)
It can go either way, because the outcome was good. But if you watched the channel and something happened to your loved ones soon thereafter or while you were watching it, you might say it was God testing you and you failed and now yo are punished.
The outcome has a lot to do with our disposition towards sin.
However, if I got sick, and my choices were to either seek God for healing or curse Him for my sickness, then I would guess that to be a test
Well, if I got sick I would seek a human doctor first, and leave miracles to God. Cursing God for our sickness implies that God is responsible for it. If that's the case, then He is also repsosnible for my sin. It was sin that brought sickness and death into the world, not God.
God only gives blessings. Some use them to commit sin; others to do God's work.
Yes and no. We may approach it from different angles, but the process leads to the same progressive steps or elements: humility, dying unto oneself, repentance, forsaking the world, becoming Christ-like in your heart.
The intent is what matters. It can't be a life-long process because some have shorter lives then other. Becoming Chirst-like in your heart is the key. It's the Beatitudes. A person who is Christ-like in his heart will do Christ-like things, if he has a chance.
It is important to honestly try even if you honestly fail. The intent is what matters.
A man who is Christ-like in his heart is a restored man. A restored man is a saved man.
St. Symeon the new Theologian, put it simply: "I therefore, as you see, did not fast, I did not keep vigil, nor did I sleep on the ground, yet I humbled myself and Lord saved me." ["On Faith"]
There is no way to quantify that if I am tested more than the next guy, that therefore I am more sanctified than him.
The early Church certainly treated those who were martyred as having been sanctified more than others.