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To: Mad Dawg; annalex; MarkBsnr; jo kus; kosta50; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; ...
FK: "We NEED Him, not just sometimes, but at ALL times. This is one of my biggest disagreements with the Latin faith."

We say otherwise? WHO does? Show me the sonofagun! I need some target practice.

It's just the way the free will position is presented. If all Jesus did was make it possible for us to come to Him, and if God never interferes, then, presumably, we come to God "on our own". I infer from that that we don't "need" Him for that decision, although every Catholic would say we absolutely need Him to get to that point. We would say that we need God for all of it.

It has to do with the parent-child analogy throughout the Bible. My impression is that the Catholic view is that we are respectful adult children, that is, we can still be greatly influenced by the parent, but are relatively independent. We see ourselves as relative toddlers, still fully dependent for everything.

[H]ere's an excerpt from a very interesting little book, Karl Adam, Roots of the Reformation: " In fact, the phrase "salvation by faith alone" has never been alien to Catholic theology. It was in fact always Catholic teaching that we can only be saved by Christ alone, that is is only God's unmerited, unmeritable grace that lifts us out of the state of sin and death into that of divine sonship, and that even the so-called "meritorious acts" which the redeemed perform in the state of justice are only "meritorious by grace," attributable, that is, the the love of Christ working in us and through us." ......

Looks like it could be a good read. :) If more folks spoke like this our disagreements would be much less.

4,937 posted on 04/15/2008 8:38:19 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Mad Dawg; MarkBsnr; jo kus; kosta50; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; ...

Regardig that Karl Adam quote, the Catholic Church does teach Grace Alone. What we don’t teach is Faith Alone. The first is biblical, the second is not.


4,940 posted on 04/16/2008 10:35:54 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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