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To: kosta50; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg
You wrote: testing helps [sic] to sanctify us during our lives. You are making a relationship between testing and sanctification.

And I asked basically what happens to those who are not tested (because there are people who go through the entire life as such), or to those who are tested in abundance (because there are many more who suffer)? And you didn't answer that with you "testing helps to sanctify." How does it 'help', and to what degree?

To what does your "[sic]" refer? Are you sure you are using that word correctly?

Anyway, I don't know of anyone who goes through life untested by God. Have you ever lost a loved one who "died too young"? Boom, you've been tested, etc. God tests all those He loves. I don't know who you mean by those who have not been tested.

For those who are tested more, they are sanctified further, as God wills. Testing is not the only means of sanctification.

I don't know how to answer "to what degree does testing sanctify us"? There's not a meter or anything. :) But as I said before, testing builds faith, just as it did with Abram. We experience (again) that we can and should trust God for everything. For example, a father loses his child to leukemia. Now, he can either blame God and run away from Him, or he can run right into His loving arms for comfort. He won't understand all the "whys" behind God calling the child home at 12 years old, but it will be enough for Him that God knows what He is doing and the trust level is strengthened. This is what happened to my pastor, and he continues to speak of it now and then when it is helpful to someone else. He says his faith is stronger and I believe him.

4,884 posted on 04/11/2008 2:19:40 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD
You wrote: testing helps [sic] to sanctify us during our lives...To what does your "[sic]" refer? Are you sure you are using that word correctly?

I think I am, it is used to question the word preceding it, it appears after the questionable word and is italicized in square brackets. If God's testing only "helps" then it is uncertain. Moreover, many an individual is tested to his detriment, and does not necessarily "help" sanctify.

Anyway, I don't know of anyone who goes through life untested by God. Have you ever lost a loved one who "died too young"? Boom, you've been tested, etc. God tests all those He loves. I don't know who you mean by those who have not been tested

Harley D recently reminded me that equality is not biblical. Not everyone is tested equally and some are hardly tested at all. Yet others just go through life tested to the max. There is no proof that testing making one a better or stronger believer and being "lucky" makes one a weak believer or a non-believer.

Depending on our disposition we deal with death in different ways, like drunks. Some who drink heavily get giddy and funny, others quiet; yet others become violent. Death is not a test; it is a fact of life which we try to rationalize into something comforting.

It's easier to face the "what's this all about" dilemma that way, because despite all the chest-thumping faith so many claim, if given the opportunity to live 200 more years in health and youth, very few would opt for an early meeting with God!

Death is never, not even among the so-called believers, something they look forward to, provided they are happy where they are. Heavenly bliss can wait.

Death reminds us of our powerlessness. There is nothing we can do when someone we love dies. The fact of nature is that all those who are born living will die. We are born and then we die. And life is something in between those two events over which we have no choice whatsoever.

Death is therefore one major subject of man's rationalizations and he approaches that fact with whatever pre-disposition he has in his mindset: some accept it meekly, thanking God for everything they were given; other ask God for more time; yet others are so angry they just want to end it all.

It was the sweeping generalization that God testing us somehow "helps" sanctify us is why I put a {sic] behind "helps." It didn't "help" Abram. Abram already believed and trusted God. He not once doubted that God wanted his son sacrificed and he was willing and ready to kill his son for God! So how did the cruelty Abram was exposed to help Abram believe more is beyond me.

Besides, considering Abram and Job, and Theotokos, what did their ordeals do to their faith and their sanctity that they already didn't have?

4,892 posted on 04/11/2008 9:03:15 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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