Replies

I haven't been following this conversation but this caught my attention:

I am trying to show you that there is no proof that will satisfy our reason. Yet, we believe...believe it or not I believe in spite of everything I say.

I just heard an excellent discussion on Romans 1. Please consider this text:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them.
Rom 1:20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.
Rom 1:21 Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

I know you're not a big fan of Paul but the scriptures are clear that man KNOWS that there is a God, and that there is ONE God. Man knows what is right and wrong. That is why we have laws.

The problem is not that man does not believe in God. The problem is that man does not wish to acknowledge God; he just doesn't want to give God any glory. It is inherit in our rebellious nature. To make matters worst, man deliberately create things to take the place of God.

Faith isn't a leap into the unknown. Rather faith is the acknowledgement of what is known.

I know you're not a big fan of Paul but the scriptures are clear that man KNOWS that there is a God, and that there is ONE God.

I disagree, and that's why I am not a big fan of St. Paul. There are people who believe in gods and worship them with love (take Thailand for example) that rivals ours (which is mostly lip service anyway).

This also then leads to false universalism. If all people know one (and the same) God, then all religions are "right" even though they are expressed differently.

Man knows what is right and wrong. That is why we have laws

Man knows two things when it comes to right and wrong: (a) feels good [right] and (b) feels bad [wrong]. That's why their god is "wrong" and ours is "right." That's why people praise God when things go good and shake their fists at him when things go bad.

If everything is for the glory of God, then our fortune and misfortune demand equal praise and gratitude, whether it be the birth of our son or daugther or a premature death of a loved one, or losing all your fortune through Enron.

This outlook makes human suffering and crulety is only part of God's "plan" and we are not to feel one way or another about it. That's not the God we recognize in Christ.

In fact, if we are to follow Reformed theology we would simply say about the unfortunate ones "too bad, they are where they are and what they are because God wanted them to be where they are and what they are."

No, HD, Man doesn't know God. Man only knows man's version of God.

Man instituded laws to gvie himself "rights." Not because man knows God.