Freedom is freedom, FK. Adam was free to sin and so are we. If our Lord Jesus Christ is fully human, then he possess the same freedom as we do, else he is not fully human. The difference is, unlike Adam, Christ chose not to sin.
Now, only the saved are free, and in a different way than Adam. We do abuse it from time to time and are punished for it, but scripture says we cannot lose it permanently
Technically speaking, that's correct. It all depends what "saved" means. To you it means here and now. To us it doesn't. We believe that after death those who in God's eyes are deemed saved will be eternally saved. Those who die unrepentant will remain eternaly lost.
We cannot repent or sin after death. That means our freedom will be taken away forever. No one will be free to sin or to repent. But those who choose God will be in bliss because it will be their choice.
Those who are lost will suffer because they made a wrong choice. But both will be exactly where they chose to be. God gave Adam the freedom to choose, and Christ restored it to us.
Adam ended where his choice took him; Christ ended when his choice took him; and we end where our choices take us. Neither Adam, nor Chirst nor we are forced to disobey or obey God.
So you would say that Christ was free to contradict His own nature?
Christ's human and divine natures are unconfused, FK. We cannot contradict our human nature and neither could Christ in his humanity. The same goes for his divine nature.
You would say that even though the Bible says it can't happen, that Christ was free to serve two masters?
No, he could serve only one. He chose the divine—consistently. He wasn't forced.
I assume you would say that God is unchangeable simply by the chance that Jesus chose not to sin?
I think you are confusing Christ's humanity with his divinity and treating them as one and the same.
I could go on all day...
So can I. It all comes down to the Reformed idea that we are forced to be God's slaves or enemies.
BTW, no one is double-predestined to anything. That doesn't even make sense
That's the most Orthodox thing you ever said! Double-predsetination is the pillar of the Reformed superstition.
God made a plan and has been executing it flawlessly. That plan obviously included Jesus.
God's "plan" (according to the Reformed): God makes man, God makes man sin, God is so offended by man's sin he tortures and kills his Son (who is really one and the same God, so he kills himself) so that some men, whom he preordained from all eternity to be saved are saved, and some who are preordained from all eternity to be roasted are roasted. Reformed thelogy in a nutshell.
Mental note: why does all-knowing transcendental God need a plan?
You are totally misunderstanding me. I am not saying there is any hierarchy in the Trinity. There is not. Jesus said "I and the Father are one"
How convenient that you would not mention that Jesus is also quoted as saying "Father is greater than I."
(Aren't all notes mental, even those we write down? Or else we wouldn't be able to write them in the first place.)
Anyway...
The term "God's plan" refers to the fact that God is the intentional, purposeful Creator of all that exists. He does not create haphazardously or on-the-fly. If He were Zeus, He could and would. But since He is the omnipotent, omniscient Triune God of all creation, He "declared the end from the beginning."
Thus there is a purpose to every speck of life, good and bad, and that purpose is to serve God's will for His glory, one way or another.
"Known to God from eternity are all His works." -- Acts 15:18
"As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the mans thereunto. Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only."
God never does anything half-way. When God decides to do something, He perfectly accomplishes what He sets out to do. He has never made a plan He intended to accomplish and then left that plan incomplete or unaccomplished. The reason God's plans do not fail is that God not only decrees the end or goal He wants to accomplish, He also decrees the means necessary to achieve that end or reach that goal. This means that when God decrees to save someone, He actually accomplishes that goal because He also decrees all the steps that will be necessary to bring that person to saving faith in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and keep that person in the faith until the very end. God's choice in election stands because God takes into account all the factors that will be needed to actually save His chosen people from their sins. Not one person will ever be lost for whom Christ has died! As Jesus said, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out" (John 6:37). God's plan of salvation is perfect in its completeness. God the Father not only elected a people to salvation, but He also sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to redeem them from their sins (1 Thess. 5:9). Then He sends His Holy Spirit at just the right time in His eternal plan to call each and every one of His elect to faith in Christ (Rom. 8:30). Not one of God's elect, no matter how far away, shall fail to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ in God's time. As the Holy Spirit works on the hearts of those who are chosen by God, He imparts the gift of faith (Eph. 2:8-9) so that they are enabled by God to repent of their sins and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. This results in the legal declaration by God called justification (Gal. 2:16). That word simply means that God imputes, or credits to the account of God's people, the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and imputes the sins of the elect to Christ. Then God looks at the sinner who is standing in the righteousness of Christ and declares him not guilty of sin because of what Christ has done for him. And He further declares him to be holy because of the righteous work of Christ in obeying all the law of God on that sinner's behalf. In addition to this, God the Father then adopts that person into His family as an heir in Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:5). All that Christ has is declared to be the Christian's because of his relationship to Jesus Christ. But God does not stop there. He then begins to work in His chosen ones to sanctify them by causing each one to desire to turn from sin and practice holiness (2 Thess. 2:13). That does not mean that Christians are perfect, for we all still sin and come short of the glory of God, but it does mean that Christians are enabled by the power of the Holy Spirit who indwells us to turn away from sin and begin to live lives that are pleasing to God. Still, the standing of the Christian does not rest on his own righteousness, but solely on the work of Christ done in his place for him. Finally, God keeps each and every Christian abiding in faith by His power and by the work of the Holy Spirit (1 Pet. 1:5). So you see, God has left nothing to chance. He did not chose some to be saved and then not appoint all the means necessary to bring them to final salvation. He did not stop short of full salvation and say: "Now it's up to you from here on." God's plan included everything necessary to bring each and every one of the people for whom Jesus Christ died to full, complete and final salvation. That's a great comfort, isn't it? It should bring you confidence in God's grace toward you if you are a believer. The Apostle Paul stated it this way: "being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). God will not stop working in His people to save and sanctify them until the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. (And of course, He will not stop loving His people then, but at that time all opportunities for salvation will be over; the final judgment of God will have come.) Has God begun a good work of salvation in you? Then take heart, He will accomplish what He has set out to do. But if you are one who answers "No" to that question, be afraid. It will not go well for you in the final judgment. Turn from your sin right now, and trust what Jesus Christ has done to save His people from their sin.
Does this mean that you see Jesus as sort of an Apollo (son of Zeus) figure because he was also susceptible to human failings and sin? It seems like you are saying that the condition of Jesus was the same as Apollo's, it's just that Jesus behaved better.
It all depends what "saved" means. To you it means here and now. To us it doesn't. We believe that after death those who in God's eyes are deemed saved will be eternally saved. Those who die unrepentant will remain eternally lost.
While I agree that we disagree on the timing, I can agree that everything you're saying here are true statements.
FK: "BTW, no one is double-predestined to anything. That doesn't even make sense."
That's the most Orthodox thing you ever said! Double-predsetination is the pillar of the Reformed superstition.
Double predestination is simply a one-term expression of two ideas. The first idea is that God is sovereign and He predestines those who will be saved. The Bible is clear that this is so:
Rom 8:29-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined , he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Eph 1:4-6 : 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Eph 1:11 : In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, ...
Now, the second idea is merely the logical inference that we draw from the first. That is, if God predestines some, but not all, that means He does not predestine some, and they will be lost. Doesn't that sound logical? I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
God's "plan" (according to the Reformed): God makes man, God makes man sin, ...
First one true, second one false.
... God is so offended by man's sin he tortures and kills his Son (who is really one and the same God, so he kills himself) so that some men, whom he preordained from all eternity to be saved are saved, and some who are preordained from all eternity to be roasted are roasted. Reformed theology in a nutshell.
What does the word "sacrifice" mean in Orthodoxy? You appear to deny that Christ gave His life willingly. Who do say was the first cause of His death?
Mental note: why does all-knowing transcendental God need a plan?
It's not a matter of need, but of His choice. The Bible says He had a plan so we believe He had a plan. It shows a rational God, not one who is irrational and random. God acts with purpose, not merely reacting to whatever happens outside of His control.