[MarkBsnr]

***It is given to Him to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. We are instruments if He chooses to use us but if not we are still commanded to share the good news.***

I’d like to know how the programming is inputted; and I still don’t get why the Good News is required to be preached to the Reformed non elect except as possibly a way for personal wealth.

***Everyone benefits from God’s grace. By right we should all have been exterminated long ago. Yet God is long suffering. So He causes the sun to shine on the just and unjust and provides air to breathe for those who would curse His name as well as praise it.***

How do the Reformed non elect benefit from God’s grace? I thought that the Reformed position was that they couldn’t receive it. If nobody preached the Gospel to these unfortunates, then is God going to remove sun and air from them? Is that why you have to do it?

I’m not getting it and I seem to be getting it less with each response.

***It is my strong belief (and I think this is evidence in scripture with the rich man and Lazarus) that there are simply some who would rather face the torment of hell then to live eternity glorifying God.***

You just may swim the Tiber yet. That is the most Catholic thing you’ve said in a long time. Unless you wanna head east with brothers Kolo and kosta, that is.

If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask them anyway what the original Greek says in Rom 1:21. I thought that the line meant that they knew of God and that they had had the Good News of Jesus preached to them and were baptized and then chose not to practice the faith.

[HarleyD]

I’d like to know how the programming is inputted

It is imputed through Christ's righteousness:
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for him alone that it was imputed to him,
Rom 4:24 but for us also to whom it is to be imputed, to the ones believing on Him who has raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 who was delivered because of our offenses and was raised for our justification.

I still don’t get why the Good News is required to be preached to the Reformed non elect

How do we know who is the elect and the non-elect. If the elect had a big "X" tatooed on their forehead it would be easy. (Of course then we would be known as the X men rather than Christians.)

How do the Reformed non elect benefit from God’s grace?

I used "grace" not in a salvation sense but in a general sense. God would be rightful and just to strike us all down. Instead He allows us to live our lives and provides for even those who would profane His Holiness.

I’m not getting it and I seem to be getting it less with each response.

For a more thorough reading may I suggest the Westminster Confession. It is an excellent document complete with refereneces.

You just may swim the Tiber yet. That is the most Catholic thing you’ve said in a long time.

I have repeatedly stated that. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a prime example. Of all the things the rich man could have asked Abraham for, he asked him for a drop of water. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that he wouldn't have asked to get out of hell? The fact is he didn't want to leave the confine of hell.

But, no, I will never swim the Tiber. If I would have lived at the time of Luther I would have probably have handed him the hammer.

BTW-I've recently discovered that it is entirely possible one of my very distance relatives was a great Reformer, a converted Jesuit priest who was a theological doctor at one of the Catholic schools. During the Reformation the Catholics sought to kill him when he converted and preached against the Catholic Church. Wanting to reform the Church must run in the family.

[kosta50]

If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask them anyway what the original Greek says in Rom 1:21. I thought that the line meant that they knew of God

Well, Kolo is a better source to tap, but ginosko does not necessarily mean knowing in the sense the Protestants claim. It certainly does mean, among other things, that we may know of something, and not that we know it.

If you have a rudimentary knowledge of the French language, do you "know" French? Some people would be arrogant enough to say yes. It all depends how high do we raise the bar and on the context of what's said or written.

In verse 19, +Paul says "because that which is known about or of God (theou) is evident within them." In the context of his writing, he speaks of knowing of God through the veidence of Creation, the way we know that if we see a house there must be a builder who raised it. But that does not mean we know the builder!

The point he was making is that even though people are aware that God created the world, based on the veidence of creation, some people still don't honor God. There is nothing in his writing here that suggests we know God inside and out.

The closest to knowing God is through Christ in the Gospels.