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To: Forest Keeper
Thanks, and it looks like I should have pinged you to 4,451. (Sorry :)

Well, it'll be hard, but in the spirit of the season and all, I just MAY find it in my wizened and shrivelled heart of stone to forgive you. Let me get back to you on that.

I suppose I am postulating that there is a real difference between change/motion and "something happening".

Think about it real hard -- not that you haven't, but harder still, please. How is "happening" thought of without change? Isn't it that something "was"n't there and "now" it is, or it "was" this way and "now" it's that way.

I fully agree that God has never gone from things like good to better, or OK to not so OK, but I don't think that necessarily means that nothing was going on before He created.

I think (JUST my problem, not saying I'm right) that you have to be careful to remain aware of the "colorless green idea" possibility. Yeah, God and what He does is/are incomprehensible. Most of the struggle is to see how much we can say with the appearance of coherence before we hit a wall. But I myself don't think we can get very far with stuff going on or happening without something changin in some respect.

4,462 posted on 03/25/2008 7:35:52 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg; kosta50; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; ...
FK: "I suppose I am postulating that there is a real difference between change/motion and "something happening"."

Think about it real hard -- not that you haven't, but harder still, please. How is "happening" thought of without change? Isn't it that something "was"n't there and "now" it is, or it "was" this way and "now" it's that way.

I can't be absolutely certain of how it works, but I think of verses like this:

John 17:23 : 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

When did the Father START loving the Son? No start time, right? That means that for eternity the Father has loved the Son, and the three Persons of the Trinity have loved for eternity. Is love static, or does it mean something is "happening"? I would say the latter. The love within the Trinity has never changed, but has always been "happening".

Jesus says "even as" which says to me He is making some kind of comparison about which we can have "some" understanding, though pitiably incomplete. For us, love is definitely not static, it is surely a "happening".

4,772 posted on 04/03/2008 7:21:52 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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