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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; Alamo-Girl; ...
We cannot relate to God on any meaningful level, except through Christ's humanity.

I very much regret if you have decided that is true for yourself.

We don't have a choice vis a vis God's rationality, FK. The Creation is the way it is whether you like it or not. You learn to live with it. It's not a matter of reason. If an asteroid is bound to hit the earth, there is nothing whatsoever we can do about it to stop it. Reason does not rule the Creation. And if it is reason, it's not our reason.

It is God's reason and you just don't want to participate. That is your choice.

The only thing irrational is for the Reformed to try to stuff God into our limited rational box and make him fit our finite minds.

The Reformed don't need to do that, nor do we try to do so. I think that some Apostolics have a seemingly innate need to define God out of existence in order to then redefine Him back into what they want. NONE of us are falling for that. :)

There is nothing rational about God as far as humans are concerned.

NO, the best you can say is that there is nothing rational about God that YOU understand.

Even the concept of God itself is irrational.

Only if one is predisposed against the concept of God. This is the place in which most humans live.

Our minds do not comprehend eternal and limitless. We have to accept it on faith, not reason.

You destroy reason since you cannot have ALL OF IT. By your own standards, there is no reason in the universe I should even consider the truth of your faith. And my understanding is that you shouldn't care less, as an Orthodox layman.

4,411 posted on 03/21/2008 8:26:01 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
Kosta: "We cannot relate to God on any meaningful level, except through Christ's humanity."

FK: "I very much regret if you have decided that is true for yourself."

"God is the only Being that truly is - the only eternal and immutable Being - who neither receives being from non-being nor returns to non-being; who is Tri-hypostatic and Almighty." +Gregory Palamas

"Who can make an imitation of the invisible, incorporeal, uncircumscribed, formless God? Therefore to give form to the Deity is the height of folly and impiety. And hence it is that in the Old Testament the use of images was not common, but after God in His bowels of pity became in truth man for our salvation, not as He was seen by Abraham in the semblance of a man, nor as He was seen by the prophets, but in being truly man, and after He lived upon the earth and dwelt among men, worked miracles, suffered, was crucified, rose again and was taken back to Heaven, since all these things actually took place and were seen by men, they were all written for the remembrance and instruction of us who were not alive at that time in order that though we saw not, we may still, hearing and believing, obtain the blessing of the Lord." +John of Damascus

FK, you really do need to reread On the Incarnation. The whole point of the Incarnation was so mankind could relate in a meaningful manner to "Ο ΩΝ" and thus have the ability to fulfill its created purpose. What Kosta has stated is completely patristic. Now, if in fact you accept the "Ancient of Days" image of The Father as the white bearded old man as being fully factual, then I can see how you could be shocked or dismayed at Kosta's remark, but he is expressing nothing that The Church hasn't always believed.

A Blessed Pascha to you, FK.

4,413 posted on 03/22/2008 4:40:23 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights
Kosta: We cannot relate to God on any meaningful level, except through Christ's humanity.

FK: I very much regret if you have decided that is true for yourself.

"No one comes to the Father except through me." [John 14:6]

We don't have a choice vis a vis God's rationality, FK. The Creation is the way it is whether you like it or not. You learn to live with it. It's not a matter of reason.

FK: It is God's reason and you just don't want to participate. That is your choice.

Participation is not reason, FK.

Kosta: The only thing irrational is for the Reformed to try to stuff God into our limited rational box and make him fit our finite minds.

The Reformed don't need to do that, nor do we try to do so. I think that some Apostolics have a seemingly innate need to define God out of existence in order to then redefine Him back into what they want. NONE of us are falling for that.

The Reformed not only re-invented God, they even re-invented the "chruch." Talk about a thorn in one's eye!

Kosta: There is nothing rational about God as far as humans are concerned.

FK: NO, the best you can say is that there is nothing rational about God that YOU understand

I must admit, I am limited to my own capacities. Unlike others...who claim to "understand" the divine.

Kosta: Even the concept of God itself is irrational.

FK: Only if one is predisposed against the concept of God. This is the place in which most humans live.

If the concept of God could be grasped through reason, people would have arrived at it without Christ. Apprently, you believe that Christ was not necessary to make our relationship with God meaninful, let alone rational (for Incarnation and Resurrection are anything but rational).

Kosta: Our minds do not comprehend eternal and limitless. We have to accept it on faith, not reason.

FK: You destroy reason since you cannot have ALL OF IT. By your own standards, there is no reason in the universe I should even consider the truth of your faith

Our reason is limited and corrupted through human fall, FK. We do not know God's reason. Christ came to restore our likeness to God by imitating Him in love, not to "figure out" God.

The degree of our salvation is proportional to the degree to which our will is in harmony with His.

Not that we can ever achieve absolute harmony, which is why we believe that God, in His infinite mercy, pardons us even if we honestly failed—as long as we honestly tried. It's love, not logic, FK.

4,416 posted on 03/22/2008 5:42:30 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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