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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; wmfights
“In the keys promised to +Peter (Mat 16:19) and the Apostles (18:18)”

Nowhere in those verses does it say that the church was given to anyone. He says “the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven” and that is not the church. Nowhere do the scriptures say that the church was entrusted to the Apostles alone or only those who succeeded the Apostles. The church at Antioch is a prime example of a church not run by Apostles. In fact it was run by laymen “prophets and teachers” who moved by the Holy Spirit, singled out Paul and Barnabas to go on the first missionary journey. If the church was under the direction of an Apostle, why was it necessary for the lay people to authorize two Apostles to go out preaching?

“But +Matthew (a witness) and +Mark (a follower of +Peter, a witness)” Mark does not include the “Great Commission” in his Gospel. It ends at chapter 16:8, the rest was added sometime later by an unknown. Luke, however, researched his material from many sources, Luke 1:1-3, “Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,”

“The point is that those who were entrusted to teach and baptize were not the laity, but the elders of the Church.”

In Acts 18:24-28, it is Aquilla and his wife Priscilla, tent makers, who teach Apollos the way and then he becomes a powerful teacher in Ephesus and Corinth, so much so, his following almost splits the church at Corinth. Nowhere is it said that Priscilla , Aquilla or Apollos, all laity, were empowered by the Apostles to teach or were answerable to the Apostles, yet they were carrying out the “Great Commission”.

4,214 posted on 03/17/2008 8:15:33 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; wmfights
church at Antioch is a prime example of a church not run by Apostles. In fact it was run by laymen “prophets and teachers”

Besides the Apostles, the prophets and teachers are church functions appointed by God. They were not ordinary laity. They were ordained elders of the Church. As far as I remember they actually laid their hands on them before they sent them off.

It ends at chapter 16:8, the rest was added sometime later by an unknown

Yes I am well aware of that, but are you saying that the bible contains fraud, human additions and deletions, when it is supposed to be the "pristine" word of God?

Fine, if +Mark is not included, +Matthew was the real witnessed. He heard the Commission. +Luke had to "research" it and all he could come up with is eleven plus women (I suppose the women who discovered the empty tomb, and even that is controversial as to how many were there).

In fact, Matthew's Genealogy of Joseph and Luke's differ on very crucial points: Jospeh's own father's name and the number of generations and names involved. +Luke's account of +Paul's "event" on the way to Damascus doesn't agree with +Paul's own, or +Paul's account abut the division that boiled up in Jerusalem with the party of +James.

Obviously there is some issue with +Luke's research as opposed to eyewitness accounts.

In Acts 18:24-28, it is Aquilla and his wife Priscilla, tent makers, who teach Apollos the way and then he becomes a powerful teacher in Ephesus and Corinth, so much so, his following almost splits the church at Corinth

My point exactly. +Paul is adamant about women being silent in the church. Which is it? Obviously +Luke favored women. Many Christian myths did, especially virgins. We have two apostles disagreeing on the role of women.

4,222 posted on 03/17/2008 9:23:52 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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