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To: wmfights; Mad Dawg; MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl
It really comes down to if you believe the sacrifice at the cross was sufficient.

Yes, I think that's huge. I think both sides would say Christ accomplished everything He intended, but we disagree with them on what that was. I happen to think the Apostolic view is that Christ accomplished very little on the cross in objective reality. Especially during this Easter season, whenever I even TRY to contemplate what He went through for us, it does not OCCUR to me that it would mean so little as our friends portray it. We all agree that God did what He did for a reason. We are left to figure out if He was trying to do a big thing or a little thing. Since it involved His very DEATH, I am inclined to think it was a big thing. But most Apostolics disagree, implicitly (or comparatively).

4,181 posted on 03/17/2008 4:51:43 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Mad Dawg; MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl
I happen to think the Apostolic view is that Christ accomplished very little on the cross in objective reality.

From a practical POV if it was so little why did he pray to The Father to take the cup from him?

4,206 posted on 03/17/2008 7:51:05 PM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Kolokotronis; Salvation; annalex; Aquinasfan; sandyeggo
I happen to think the Apostolic view is that Christ accomplished very little on the cross in objective reality.

If I am correct in assuming that you include us calf-licks among the "apostolic", this testifies to me that we have done a downright HORRIBLE job of communicating.

Last night at Mass (the Gospel reading was the anointing at Bethany; the sermon was in invitation to give your "best stuff", to squander it, on paying attention to the Love of God) I was thinking that the Great Battle of the Passion was not just about humans and human souls and salvation (as though that weren't enough), but about wresting the entire cosmos from Satan's grasp.

TO be totally and geekily ridiculous, the death of Christ is like the bomb that Luke Skywalker is able to send right into the heart of the death-star. Sorta kinda as kosta said, Satan expected a corpse and got a nuke!

IN the dark ages, when I was very young and toys weren't designed for children, I got a present that involved winding something up. Being a southpaw (and very very young) I wound it up backwards and fried the spring completely.

The Passion and death fried Satan's clockwork. Without Jesus, evil leads to evil. WITH Jesus, Joseph's betrayal by his brothers saves God's promise to Abraham and saves their own lives.

Death is no longer an end but a beginning ...

I could go on and on. Let us all glorify the miracle of Easter!

As a Dominican whose excellence as a writer is exceeded only by his modesty wrote a dozen years ago:

Always mind that though Lent lasts forty days, the holy season of Easter lasts a full fifty days, from Easter Day until Pentecost, and is followed by still more feasts, those of the Holy Trinity and of the Sacred Body and Blood of Our Lord. It is as though, after a time of sorrow, our Joy -- even our merriment -- should continue until we can celebrate no more. We are spent before our Joy is done.

And must it not be so: that though our sin gives grave cause for great and lengthy sorrow, yet the great Triumph of the Love of God, made plain in the rising of The Son, gives weightier cause for greater and more lengthy Joy? We ought to grieve and to be abashed for a season, because our sin required so dreadful and doleful a remedy. But much more ought we to make merry because Our Sweet Lord so willingly paid the price of our sin and now is risen gloriously.

And much more still ought we to rejoice because He carries us as captives in His climbing train and bears us as precious trophies to lay before the Father’s throne. Alleluia!

Of course, in my household we don't say that last word until Easter. We say "A-word", so we can save up the whoopee.
4,245 posted on 03/18/2008 6:43:48 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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