Replies

FK: ***We are to share the Gospel because Christ sent us to do so.***

Are we back to the strictly mechanical Reformed view of the elect?

I don't know. What is that? The Reformed believe that God sends all of His children to minister to all people. Is that so bad?

The Reformed predestined will believe regardless of your action or inaction. They are predestined. What, then, is the use of your preaching?

You are forgetting that it is God's INTENTION to use His elect to reach others of His elect. So, in some cases my action is indeed required because that is what God planned. The cause of my action is wholly God, but it is still necessary for God's plan to be fulfilled. That is the use of my preaching.

FK: ***We are commanded to witness to everyone.***

For what purpose? The elect will be ambushed by the Holy Spirit; the non elect will be taunted. Is this Christianity?

No, that doesn't sound like Christianity. I can't speak for Catholicism, but I'm glad I don't know of anyone who thinks like you say. When we preach to the saved-to-be, the purpose is obvious. When we preach to the non-elect, we also benefit from the experience, and the non-elect probably benefits from the interaction as well. It is NEVER a waste to preach the Gospel.

FK: ***I believe that if I drop a hammer it will fall.***

No. Your experience tells you that it will fall. It is knowledge. No wonder we have such interesting debates - we don’t even have common terminology.

You're right that we don't have common terminology. I really DO believe that if I drop a hammer it will fall. So, I have no idea what you're talking about.

See? The Reformed appear have redefined “belief” and “knowledge” each to mean the other.

How do you define your faith in your Church? Do you believe that your uninspired men are correct, or do you know it?

The Reformed believe that God sends all of His children to minister to all people

All? He was addressing the Apostles. And the NT reminds us that not all are Apostles.

But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Intended for the apostles only! here are a lot of other interesting details I outlined in this but that's for another thread.

But you are not called to preach unless you are an apostle. Your preaching doesn't give anyone faith; neither does the Bible. Is it not God who gives faith? Was it not God, according to your theology, who decided that at one point, long before you existed, you will have faith regardless of what takes place?

Preaching, praying, bible reading had nothing to do with it. It was set in stone.

Again, I remind you that not all are apostles and that the Great Commission was not given to all.

When we preach to the non-elect, we also benefit from the experience, and the non-elect probably benefits from the interaction as well.

What benefit? Is your faith and your assurance not sufficient? What else do you need?

FK: ***I believe that if I drop a hammer it will fall.***

Mark: No. Your experience tells you that it will fall. It is knowledge. No wonder we have such interesting debates - we don’t even have common terminology.

FK: You're right that we don't have common terminology. I really DO believe that if I drop a hammer it will fall. So, I have no idea what you're talking about.

But this "belief" is based on factual experience; not some "indwelling spirit." Look, even Christ used miracles to make people believe. It is only after it became impossible to duplicate the miracles mentioned in the early NT that faith, believing without seeing, became the norm in the writings towards the end of the 1st century.

Mark: See? The Reformed appear have redefined “belief” and “knowledge” each to mean the other

You know, Prof. Kalomiros, an Orthodox theologian of the 1970's, wrote in his address "You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose."

Do you see the reformed theology in this? I do. It reeks of Calvinism, where hate becomes love, where a tyrant becomes a "benevolent" Father, even a "Daddy."

But then Kalomiros says: "But what was the instrument of the devil’s slandering of God? What means did he use in order to convince humanity, in order to pervert human thought?

He used "theology." He first introduced a slight alteration in theology which, once it was accepted, he managed to increase more and more to the degree that Christianity became completely unrecognizable...Did you ever try to pinpoint what is the principal characteristic of Western [Protestant] theology? Well, its principal characteristic is that it considers God as the real cause of all evil."

So your observation is right on target, Mark. By changing and redefining words to fit that theology one creates new "beliefs," where hate becomes love and evil becomes a creature of God (something that was confirmed on in these posts by the reformed on more than one occasion). The really sad thing is that they are not even aware that they have been hijacked.

***You are forgetting that it is God’s INTENTION to use His elect to reach others of His elect. So, in some cases my action is indeed required because that is what God planned. The cause of my action is wholly God, but it is still necessary for God’s plan to be fulfilled. That is the use of my preaching.***

Curious. Where does the Holy Spirit come in utilizing this methodology? Are you merely mechanically doing things that seem right to you just in case God wills it?

***When we preach to the non-elect, we also benefit from the experience, and the non-elect probably benefits from the interaction as well. ***

Probably? The Reformed non elect are going to hellfire and damnation forever. How in the world could they benefit?

***I really DO believe that if I drop a hammer it will fall. So, I have no idea what you’re talking about.***

There is a vast difference between belief and knowledge. I think that it might appear to be a factor in some of the discussions and disagreements that go on here.

I believe in God, the Father almighty...

I know that the sun rises in the east.